From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Recipients of SOMMS digests <SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:  SOMMS Digest - 15 Jul 1999 to 16 Jul 1999
Date: Friday, July 16, 1999 2:02 AM

There are 20 messages totalling 575 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Justin's Comment...SG Breakup Good?
  2. i don't give a fuck(abbreviations) (2)
  3. 4OJ (4)
  4. 4th of July interp
  5. 40J
  6. "A-Sides" (3)
  7. <No subject given> (2)
  8. Rusty war (2)
  9. Am I a "newbie"?
 10. Badmotorfinger
 11. AAARRGH!
 12. Bumbershoot

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Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:23:03 -0400
From:    jenny grover <sleeveless@CITYNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Justin's Comment...SG Breakup Good?

Koggle wrote:

> But I for one am not interested in this side whatsoever.. as much as I try,
> i just can't get myself motivated to even TRY to get into these spin-off
> bands (by that i don't mean to be insulting to the bands, I mean post SG
> bands). Some of you might be horrified at this fact..

Not horrified, but it's kind of sad that you are missing out on some
great music.  Are you avoiding getting into these bands because you are
afraid of some inferior thing relating to SG members, or are you just
not getting into anything new or different in the way of bands?  Either
way, it's only yourself who is missing out.


and The Cat wrote:
> To me, it seems like Soundgarden did
> it all, and anything else after DotU (ooooh look, an abbreviation!) would
> have sounded like rehashes of the prevous albums. Yet, I know I've been
> suprised with something new every time I listened to a new album. Confusing?

Yeah, because you seem to be contradicting yourself here.  Soundgarden
really didn't do it all, although they did close enough to "it all" for
a lot of us.  I think their next album would have had a different
flavor.  I think it would have been more experimental in nature, though
in exactly in what direction I don't know (but I have some sort of
feeling of what it might have been like- not things I can readily
describe in words).  Just because we can't imagine what it would have
been like, though, doesn't mean that they couldn't have, and it doesn't
mean that they were running out of creative ideas.  We will never know,
of course, unless they do reunite (which I personally think is unlikely)
and even then, based on how much time they had spent apart and what
styles they had pursued in the meantime, that album would likely be far
different than had they stayed together and gone right into work on a
new album after DOTU.

> Every good artist needs to branch out. Chris obviously wants to
> focus on his singing if he views his vocals in Soundgarden as an instrument.
> Matt is doing Wellwater, which he's happily doing.

But this in itself does not fundamentally require the break-up of the
common band.  Mark Lanegan put out 3 (with a possible 4th on the way)
wonderful solo albums while remaining a member of Screaming Trees (all
of whose members are in at least one other serious side project) whose
music remains fundamentally different in tone and spirit and has not
suffered in quality as a result.  Barrett Martin is in Tuatara, with
Peter Buck who remains in REM, and Tuatara sounds absolutely nothing at
all like Screaming Trees or REM.  If the ideas are there for the
artists, they can branch out and work with other collaborators and still
work with their long-standing collaborators in that vein as well. Don't
short change the guys' abilities.  If they broke up it was not a matter
of spreading themselves too thin artistically, but some sort of
dissatisfaction with either the nature of their collaborative process,
or some aspect of the business surrounding being in that particular band
(which Chris seemed to hint at in the new biography on his official
page).

Jen

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:23:08 -0400
From:    jenny grover <sleeveless@CITYNET.NET>
Subject: Re: i don't give a fuck(abbreviations)

Jimmy wrote:

> it's ACRONYM, not anagram.  an anagram is the full word for SOMMS which i am
>  too fuckin lazy to write out.

Wrong, smarty-pants.  SOMMS- satan oscillate my metallic sonatas- is a
palindrome (a word or phrase spelled exactly the same way forward or
backwards).  An anagram is a word or words formed from the letters of
another word (of which there are some cool ones for Soundgarden up
somewhere- Under Gonads being a personal favorite).

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:19:49 EDT
From:    James Connolly <Draco900@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: i don't give a fuck(abbreviations)

hahahha i feel like such an ass


say farewell, g'night
sonny jim

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:26:54 +0000
From:    johnny utah <furthertcb@YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject: 4OJ

Re: 4th Of July.
With all respect, you're wrong.
The song has religious connotations for a reason. The song was going to be
called "Vietnam". But Chris thought that would be too obvious, it clearly
needed it. He also thought it would be cool to link it in to the freedom
celebrations [c/f Oliver Stone's 'Born On The 4th Of July']. The song is
about good Christian boys going to Asia and getting slaughtered.
One of my fave Cornell lines:
"Cool in the waterway, where the baptized drown." After the fighting, all
that is left is the bodies of good, religious American boys.
The rest of the song is easy to work out in this light. I may do a full
interp for Arden one day. Hoped I've helped Joe.
Johnny.



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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:41:15 -0400
From:    Sarah C Traeger <traegers@BMS.COM>
Subject: Re: 4th of July interp

For me, 4th of July always has envoked metaphoric images of the
terrifying experiences a Vietnam veteren or any modern war vet)
must have gone through, the denial of the horror and sacrifice
when he got home and the sad truth that his survival and sanity
is only maintained by his own ability to maintain self-control,
with faith being present but of little comfort.
 Or not............ Sarah

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:15:39 -0700
From:    ? <vamprcat@EMRL.COM>
Subject: Re: 4OJ

Interesting.

I think you missed my point.

As a reaction of the audience to an artifact (in this case a song),
an interpretation CAN'T really be "wrong."

I might have missed the exact references the author (Chris Cornell)
wrote into the lyrics, or what he was thinking of when he wrote the
lyrics, but I simply can't be "wrong" about what the song evoked in my
mind. I might have trouble expessing my interpretation, but there really
isn't a "wrong" interpretation the way I define(d) interpretation.

Due to the nature of language/communication, no one, not even the author,
has a monopoly on what a song is "about." The author constructs a message,
perhaps with a set of intended meanings (polysemic in nature). The author
communicates the message- dissemination occurrs. Each person receiving the
message gets a different, mutable set of meanings. The original message
is understood differently by each person; furthermore, those
understandings are both multiple and changeable.

It's helpful to know what the author was thinking, and knowing that he was
thinking of Vietnam will help me write a fuller interpretation when/if I
get around to it. Hence, my understanding changes over time.

So, Johnny, thanks for the information.

Tiffany

 On Thu, 15 Jul 1999, johnny utah wrote:

> Re: 4th Of July.
> With all respect, you're wrong.
> The song has religious connotations for a reason. The song was going to be
> called "Vietnam". But Chris thought that would be too obvious, it clearly
> needed it. He also thought it would be cool to link it in to the freedom
> celebrations [c/f Oliver Stone's 'Born On The 4th Of July']. The song is
> about good Christian boys going to Asia and getting slaughtered.
> One of my fave Cornell lines:
> "Cool in the waterway, where the baptized drown." After the fighting, all
> that is left is the bodies of good, religious American boys.
> The rest of the song is easy to work out in this light. I may do a full
> interp for Arden one day. Hoped I've helped Joe.
> Johnny.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:20:18 +0100
From:    Deborah Baker <deborah@RUSTYCAGE.U-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: 4OJ

Johnny wrote:

> Re: 4th Of July. With all respect, you're wrong.
> The song has religious connotations for a reason. The song was going to be
> called "Vietnam".

I thought that was Mailman.

Deborah

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:26:08 PDT
From:    Joe Franks <logonmas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: 4OJ

I just want to say thanks.  You know to tell you the truth I would have
never guessed that 4th of July was talking about war.  When I first saw the
name and heard the first two lines I always assumed it was about fireworks.
Then I heard the "cool in the waterway where the baptized drown", and a few
others, and it always confused me so I just tried to ignore those lines.
Thanks for clearing that up and thanks for all those responses to my post.


P.S Someone told the list that it was about fireworks and drugs in an
interview. Was that just Chris improving?


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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:38:11 +0100
From:    Deborah Baker <deborah@RUSTYCAGE.U-NET.COM>
Subject: Re: 40J

You sure you are not confusing 4th of July with Mailman, Johnny? Where did
you hear/read that 4th of July was at one point going to be called Vietnam?

Because if you go to
http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/articles/raw_12-21-93.html scroll to the
bottom where 11 of the tracks from Superunknown are previewed (the interview
took place before the band had mixed the album, so maybe the song titles
weren't 100% finalised) and you'll see:

"MAILMAN (or perhaps 'Vietman')
Pure Soundgarden power. The chorus - I know I'm headed for the bottom/But
I'm riding you all the way - says it all."

VietMAN is pretty close.

Deborah

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:26:51 PDT
From:    Ryan Gilbert <fopp10@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: "A-Sides"

te: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:40:49 +1000
>
>Ryan, we all love SG. We love them to the point that we know all of their
>songs VERY WELL. Learn their music better.

All right. I know their music pretty damn well. You don't need to try and
prove your superiority by sending me a message like that. When I was talking
about the abbreviations I was referring to the Alice In Chains songs, NOT
the Soundgarden ones. I'm not on a fucking Alice In Chains mailing list and
I don't listen to Alice In Chains as much as Soundgarden (so I might not
know all their songs) We're on this list to share memories and feelings
about the band. We're not here to act like 10 year olds and acuse others of
not being adecquate fans. I started to listen to Soundgarden many years
before they broke up, so I'm not a "newbie." So don't you tell me to learn
their music better. I'd appreciate it if, in the future, no one told me to
be a better fan.


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------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:05:03 +1200
From:    Adrian Humphrey <humad571@STUDENT.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: <No subject given>

Why is everyone getting so bitchy??

Adrian

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:12:12 EDT
From:    Jonathan Berrier <TycobSG@AOL.COM>
Subject: Rusty war

        Good evening all of you Soundgarden followers.  Lately I've been very
disappointed with the material that shows up in my mailbox.  It seems as if
some of you SOMMSsters are getting all up tight over something as small as
abbreviations.  It really is not a big deal.  No one person needs to argue
just because another fan doesn't understand an abbreviation.  It may make
perfect sense to one person, but is nonsense to another.  It is all a matter
of perception.  I am making no accusations, just trying to point out the
pettiness of this thread.  If someone out there doesn't understand an
abbreviation, email the person that sent the mail.  It's is that simple.  I'm
sorry if this post means absolutely nothing to you and just wasted your time.


And I'll pay no...

Jonathan


PS
No I am not a newbie. I just haven't posted in a couple million years.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:28:21 -0500
From:    Mike Jones <mijones@AIRMAIL.NET>
Subject: Re: Rusty war

Jonathan Berrier wrote:
>
>         Good evening all of you Soundgarden followers.  Lately I've been very
> disappointed with the material that shows up in my mailbox.  It seems as if
> some of you SOMMSsters are getting all up tight over something as small as
> abbreviations.  It really is not a big deal.  No one person needs to argue
> just because another fan doesn't understand an abbreviation.  It may make
> perfect sense to one person, but is nonsense to another.  It is all a matter
> of perception.  I am making no accusations, just trying to point out the
> pettiness of this thread.  If someone out there doesn't understand an
> abbreviation, email the person that sent the mail.  It's is that simple.  I'm
> sorry if this post means absolutely nothing to you and just wasted your time.

Jonathan, I couldnt agree with you more. It seems like a LOT more new
people to the list have shown up and decided they're gonna let everyone
know that they're on the list. Thing is though, they're not really
newbies, most have been a fan for many years, but we call them newbies
because they're new to the list. So that means that they'll attempt all
the overused threads, like "Kim Thayil is the greatest guitar player",
or the "best SG album", or the whole middle name thing. They're probably
going to bring it back up, and when they do, I'll be here to make
extensive use of my delete key.

Andy

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:41:08 EDT
From:    Heather Scott <Powerhks@AOL.COM>
Subject: Am I a "newbie"?

When the term "newbie" is used, is it in reference to a new person on the
SOMMS list?  OR is a "newbie" a person who has recently become aquatinted
with Soundgarden's music and become a new fan?

-Heather

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:40:35 +1000
From:    Mansel Ismay <manseli@BIGPOND.COM>
Subject: Re: "A-Sides"

Hey, ok, no offence was intended in that last post.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:04:35 PDT
From:    kristina allen <bootyfly@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: <No subject given>

  I am a so called"newbie"to the somm list and it seems as though all my
mail is dissing the "newbies" and I am so tired of it so if in the future
keep this in mind IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL
AND TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS BESIDES ABBREVIATIONS AND "NEWBIES" DAMMIT
     if you cant deal, "hard headed fuck you all"


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:17:32 -0700
From:    Sam Nethery <supernaut@PLANETACCESS.COM>
Subject: Badmotorfinger

Could someone please tell me if there is any significance to the colours of the sawblade (circular M pattern) on the  badmotorfinger CD.
My copy is gold and I have seen another which is yellow. What colour is yours?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Get YOUR Free E-mail at http://www.planetaccess.com

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:56:26 EDT
From:    Bob Blake <Bobbeth77@AOL.COM>
Subject: AAARRGH!

The amount of mail i am getting from this list is driving me nuts!!  Is there
any way I can get the messages in one bulk e-mail?

                                                           Bob

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:54:44 -0400
From:    Brandon Baker <bnbaker@1ST.NET>
Subject: Re: "A-Sides"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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ryan said:
"All right. I know their music pretty damn well. You don't need to try =
and
prove your superiority by sending me a message like that. When I was =
talking
about the abbreviations I was referring to the Alice In Chains songs, =
NOT
the Soundgarden ones. I'm not on a fucking Alice In Chains mailing list =
and
I don't listen to Alice In Chains as much as Soundgarden (so I might not
know all their songs) We're on this list to share memories and feelings
about the band. We're not here to act like 10 year olds and acuse others =
of
not being adecquate fans. I started to listen to Soundgarden many years
before they broke up, so I'm not a "newbie." So don't you tell me to =
learn
their music better. I'd appreciate it if, in the future, no one told me =
to
be a better fan."



wow, i really wish that posts like these could be sent directly to the =
person to whom it is concerned. i really don't post that often ( as most =
of you know ) and when i see posts like this cluttering up the list, it =
annoys me greatly. i know, by sending a message like this to the list, i =
am being hippocritical, but i needed all of you to hear this. please =
flame directly to the person at whom the flame is directed. i joined =
this list to discuss things about soundgarden, not to argue about who =
likes them better, or who knows more about them.=20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>ryan said:<BR>&quot;All =
right. I know=20
their music pretty damn well. You don't need to try and<BR>prove your=20
superiority by sending me a message like that. When I was =
talking<BR>about the=20
abbreviations I was referring to the Alice In Chains songs, NOT<BR>the=20
Soundgarden ones. I'm not on a fucking Alice In Chains mailing list =
and<BR>I=20
don't listen to Alice In Chains as much as Soundgarden (so I might =
not<BR>know=20
all their songs) We're on this list to share memories and =
feelings<BR>about the=20
band. We're not here to act like 10 year olds and acuse others of<BR>not =
being=20
adecquate fans. I started to listen to Soundgarden many years<BR>before =
they=20
broke up, so I'm not a &quot;newbie.&quot; So don't you tell me to=20
learn<BR>their music better. I'd appreciate it if, in the future, no one =
told me=20
to<BR>be a better fan.<FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&quot;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>wow, i really wish that posts like =
these could=20
be sent directly to the person to whom it is concerned. i really don't =
post that=20
often ( as most of you know ) and when i see posts like this cluttering =
up the=20
list, it annoys me greatly. i know, by sending a message like this to =
the list,=20
i am being hippocritical, but i needed all of you to hear this. please =
flame=20
directly to the person at whom the flame is directed. i joined this list =
to=20
discuss things about soundgarden, not to argue about who likes them =
better, or=20
who knows more about them. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BECF25.CBB61540--

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:11:19 PDT
From:    Dave George-Cosh <wellwaterc@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Bumbershoot

I remember a LOooooooooong time ago, there was rumours of Chris playing the
Bumbershoot Festival. Now, it does make sense if you think about it, for
Chris to try his new stuff (which will be released a few weeks after the
Bumbershoot) in front of a crowd. I know, I know, we've all got the crap
about him playing in a small club, but I mean, its Seattle, his hometown, he
can do it. Just think about it, Chris, ROCKET from the f'n Crypt, REM, and
Queens From The Stone Age (whom I haven't heard much about, but apparantly
kicked with our Matty playing a one off for em)

I'm out.
Dave


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------------------------------

End of SOMMS Digest - 15 Jul 1999 to 16 Jul 1999
************************************************