From: Automatic digest processor To: Recipients of SOMMS digests Subject: SOMMS Digest - 7 Jul 1999 to 8 Jul 1999 Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 2:02 AM There are 21 messages totalling 832 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Enough already! 2. Rituaaaaaaaaal (2) 3. Ben and Nirvana (3) 4. Rituaaaaaaal (3) 5. ben 6. Cleaning My Gun & Fluttergirl & Song That Got Me Hooked 7. chris in satan's bedroom? (7) 8. Fw: Mark Sandman Dies (fwd)] 9. Whats it all about? 10. Mark Sandman To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:15:59 +0100 From: Deborah Baker Subject: Enough already! Hmm, so we have *one* post about something that, okay, most of us know. And *several* complaining about it/defending newbies (including this one). So who exactly on this list is wasting everyone's time? Not Jennifer, in my opinion. Deborah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:50:37 GMT From: -The Cat- Subject: Rituaaaaaaaaal >From: Fluttergirl >Reply-To: Fluttergirl >To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: [SOMMS] First Song and going through the temple >Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:20:16 -0600 > >I had >also bought the SINGLES soundtrack because of Pearl Jam -- loved seasons, >but didn't particularly like Birth Ritual (a song that has grown on me >since). That version is crummy, the demo version is a million times better and actually sounds like Soundgarden. )\._.,--....,'``. /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' -The Cat- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://come.to/askthecat/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:36:53 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Ben and Nirvana J.C. wrote: > All you SG history experts out there, was it really a > possibility that Ben would have joined Nirvana as a > guitarist if he hadn't been offered a place in > Soundgarden? When I met Andy Miller last Sept. he talked about Ben's brief stint with Nirvana. Ben was pretty bummed out that he never got to play live with them, bummed out to the point of threatening to quit music. It sounded like a weird trip all around. They kept promising to work him into "the next show" but they never did, and they wouldn't teach him any of the newer songs. Andy reckoned it was because Kurt was afraid Ben would have too strong an influence on their sound (and perhaps their direction too) and Andy and Damon Romero both agreed that there was no way Ben could NOT have a strong influence. He's just that kind of player. I will probably risk the ire of die-hard Nirvanans by saying this (hey, I liked Nirvana before much of anyone not on the west coast had heard of them!) but I think they had something more of a pop sound than a lot of the Seattle bands at that time (excluding the Posies, of course). I don't mean that in a bubble gum mindless sense, but in terms of song structure and the chord progressions they used, and I think that's a big reason radio and the biggies of the record industry picked up on them. I think Ben would have added a more experimental nature, more of an eclecticism. He even added a smattering of jazz influence to SG in the way he approached basslines. Wherever Ben goes he is and wants to be a contributor. Even if he is playing an existing bassline, he does it with his own flavor and if he plays it long enough to be comfortable with it and in the band situation, it evolves into a Ben line. If you listen to bootlegs of the first Mark Lanegan solo shows from last year's tour and compare them with the last few shows, there is quite a lot of growth evident in the level of improvisation, and those lines became more and more Benlike. > Just how much > effect do you think Ben has had on Soundgarden? Huge. Ben got them out of that awful Jason-era headbanger thing they were teetering dangerously close to. It wasn't just punk he added, but a different approach in general. Ben thinks and plays from another angle than most people. > Or would they have > gone the way of The Screaming Trees and even the Alice > in Chains of this world, and just muddled on as they > were to eventually be forgotten? Whoa! Whoa! muddled on? eventually forgotten? You're obviously not hip to the Screaming Trees world or their fan community. Far from muddling on, they work hard and put out quality music. The band itself continues on despite erroneous rumors that they broke up (for some reason Mark's solo albums always make some nitwit think the band broke up and it makes its way into press), plays kick-ass shows, and has a new album in the works, as well as all of its members being involved in numerous side projects. They might not have enjoyed the chart topping levels of success of their other Seattle brethren, but don't count them out based on that alone, and they have never sold out to anyone. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:12:41 +1000 From: Mansel Ismay Subject: Re: Rituaaaaaaal >>I had >>also bought the SINGLES soundtrack because of Pearl Jam-loved seasons, >>but didn't particularly like Birth Ritual (a song that has grown on me >>since). >>That version is crummy, the demo version is a million times better and actually sounds like Soundgarden. I actually prefer the Singles version to the demo, it's faster and has more life. Oh well, that's just me. Mansel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:18:33 -0700 From: "J.C." Subject: Re: Ben and Nirvana Thanks for this post Jenny, it's exactly what I was looking for. And sorry about saying Screaming Trees had 'muddled on' it was a poor choice of words. I used them and AIC as examples of Seattle bands from that era that were around Soundgarden's standard but never really went to that extra level that SG achieved in the mid-nineties. Know what I mean? All my opinion of course though, so don't hurt me... You could say the same about Nirvana too. Which is exactly my point about Ben being the thing that maybe added the extra spark to SG. Then again, if you just take Chris, Kim and Matt as a threepiece, it's still a very formidable line-up. (and please no smart-alecs saying 'but they wouldn't have a bassist'). Jay. --- jenny grover wrote: > J.C. wrote: > > > All you SG history experts out there, was it > really a > > possibility that Ben would have joined Nirvana as > a > > guitarist if he hadn't been offered a place in > > Soundgarden? > > When I met Andy Miller last Sept. he talked about > Ben's brief stint with > Nirvana. Ben was pretty bummed out that he never > got to play live with > them, bummed out to the point of threatening to quit > music. It sounded > like a weird trip all around. They kept promising > to work him into "the > next show" but they never did, and they wouldn't > teach him any of the > newer songs. Andy reckoned it was because Kurt was > afraid Ben would have too strong an influence on > their sound (and > perhaps their direction too) and Andy and Damon > Romero both agreed that > there was no way Ben could NOT have a strong > influence. He's just that > kind of player. I will probably risk the ire of > die-hard Nirvanans by > saying this (hey, I liked Nirvana before much of > anyone not on the west > coast had heard of them!) but I think they had > something more of a pop > sound than a lot of the Seattle bands at that time > (excluding the > Posies, of course). I don't mean that in a bubble > gum mindless sense, > but in terms of song structure and the chord > progressions they used, and > I think that's a big reason radio and the biggies of > the record industry > picked up on them. I think Ben would have added a > more experimental > nature, more of an eclecticism. He even added a > smattering of jazz > influence to SG in the way he approached basslines. > Wherever Ben goes he > is and wants to be a contributor. Even if he is > playing an existing > bassline, he does it with his own flavor and if he > plays it long enough > to be comfortable with it and in the band situation, > it evolves into a > Ben line. If you listen to bootlegs of the first > Mark Lanegan solo > shows from last year's tour and compare them with > the last few shows, > there is quite a lot of growth evident in the level > of improvisation, > and those lines became more and more Benlike. > > > Just how much > > effect do you think Ben has had on Soundgarden? > > Huge. Ben got them out of that awful Jason-era > headbanger thing they > were teetering dangerously close to. It wasn't just > punk he added, but > a different approach in general. Ben thinks and > plays from another > angle than most people. > > > Or would they have > > gone the way of The Screaming Trees and even the > Alice > > in Chains of this world, and just muddled on as > they > > were to eventually be forgotten? > > Whoa! Whoa! muddled on? eventually forgotten? > You're obviously not > hip to the Screaming Trees world or their fan > community. Far from > muddling on, they work hard and put out quality > music. The band itself > continues on despite erroneous rumors that they > broke up (for some > reason Mark's solo albums always make some nitwit > think the band broke > up and it makes its way into press), plays kick-ass > shows, and has a new > album in the works, as well as all of its members > being involved in > numerous side projects. They might not have enjoyed > the chart topping > levels of success of their other Seattle brethren, > but don't count them > out based on that alone, and they have never sold > out to anyone. > > Jen > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:25:41 -0700 From: Andrew Snodgrass Subject: Re: Rituaaaaaaal Speaking of "Birth Ritual" anyone know if there is a live version of it out there on a bootleg??? If you do know of one please let me know. -- -AS mailto:asnod@home.com http://members.home.net:80/asnod/ |---------------------------------------------------------------| | "Everybody likes my stuff! Everybody knows that I can rock! | | Everybody knows that I can whip a horse's ass! | | Everybody in my general time knows that I can rock good. | | And as I rock well, I'm going to rev it up!" | | | | - Wesley Willis | |---------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 05:31:36 -0700 From: johnny utah Subject: ben Ben was a guitar tech for Nirvana, they realised his talent and Kurt wanted him to join as second guitarist. They were persuaded to remain a three piece by friends until pressure caused Kurt to bring in Pat. So he could have joined, but they didn't want him! I think he probably would have done far more for SG than Nirvana anyway, let's face it, Dave's songs didn't even make Nirvana so why would Ben's? As for Mike, you don't have to be such an asshole. Maybe you should get off the list, where do you think you are, Nam? Quit all this veteran bullshit, and cheer the fuck up. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:57:28 +0200 From: Jon Waltersson Subject: Re: Rituaaaaaaaaal -The Cat- skrev: > >From: Fluttergirl > >Reply-To: Fluttergirl > >To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > >Subject: [SOMMS] First Song and going through the temple > >Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:20:16 -0600 > > > >I had > >also bought the SINGLES soundtrack because of Pearl Jam -- loved seasons, > >but didn't particularly like Birth Ritual (a song that has grown on me > >since). > > That version is crummy, the demo version is a million times better and > actually sounds like Soundgarden. > > )\._.,--....,'``. > /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. > `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' -The Cat- > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > http://come.to/askthecat/ > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com I love Birth Ritual, so if the demo version is heaps better, I don't know if I can handle listening to it! Anyway, I'd love to try, so please post the URL where I can find it. (Heh...If there is such a URL, that is.) Or perhaps some nice guy/girl out there can email it to me? Talking about demo versions being better than the final version....the demo for Fell on Black Days is just greeeeat. I don't think they sound alike at all. Then again, I'm not saying the album version isn't good. It rocks too. Indeed. Later Jon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:30:16 PDT From: SheLikesSurprises * Subject: Re: Cleaning My Gun & Fluttergirl & Song That Got Me Hooked Zoud questioned just like i did before: >At the soundgarden lyrics site at imusic's I found a song named >Cleaning my Gun. Does anyone know anything about it? eh... Zoud I've repeatedly asked this question too!! and no one's ever said anything about it. It's a mystery. I love the lyrics though..... they're very bitter, very good. Andy commented: >Wouldn't it be cool if Chris got a hold of this demo and mixed it in >his >version of Fluttergirl on his album, so it would be like a duet? >That >would be eerie.... that would be eerie... and so damn cool. it sounds interesting and exciting and yet somewhat perverse/petrifying enough for chris to maybe consider......a hommage to jeff in a way? fluttergirl is a sweet song who wouldn't want to try it out? :) .....and now the song that really got me hooked.... pretty noose. sls*(into chris' fire she goes...) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:51:39 -0500 From: Mike Jones Subject: Re: Rituaaaaaaal >That version is crummy, the demo version is a million times better and >actually sounds like Soundgarden. I prefer the demo version too because it might be a little bit slower, but it's just so much heavier. It may be slower, but i would put the heaviness with the guitar sounds and everything up against Mailman or Beyond the Wheel or something. You should listen to the demo version twice, one to listen to everything Ben, Kim, and Chris are doing, and the other time to listen to all the fills Matt is doing, I was thoroughly impressed. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:11:46 EDT From: Charlie Mccutcheon Subject: chris in satan's bedroom? anybody see the south park movie? well, if you haven't but intend to (i would suggest it if you can handle it) look for the huge poster of what looks like chris cornell over satan's bed. if it's not him it reeally looks like him. it would be one of his introspective poses. it's pretty damn funny, too, considering satan is gay. just see the movie. thanks charlie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:35:34 -0500 From: Amy Subject: Re: chris in satan's bedroom? --------------808A215300347F31FB558D73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charlie Mccutcheon wrote: > > look for the huge poster of what looks like chris cornell over satan's bed. > if it's not him it reeally looks like him. it would be one of his > introspective poses. it's pretty damn funny, too, considering satan is gay. I haven't seen it (and don't intend to) but I would bet somebody's life that it's supposed to be him. > >Wouldn't it be cool if Chris got a hold of this demo and mixed it in >his > >version of Fluttergirl on his album, so it would be like a duet? >That > >would be eerie.... > > that would be eerie... and so damn cool. it sounds interesting and exciting > and yet somewhat perverse/petrifying enough for chris to maybe > consider......a hommage to jeff in a way? fluttergirl is a sweet song who > wouldn't want to try it out? :) > Two men doing a duet of Flutter Girl. HAAAAAAAA!!! Amy > > > > > --------------808A215300347F31FB558D73 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charlie Mccutcheon wrote:
 
look for the huge poster of what looks like chris cornell over satan's bed.
if it's not him it reeally looks like him. it would be one of his
introspective poses. it's pretty damn funny, too, considering satan is gay.
I haven't seen it (and don't intend to) but I would bet somebody's life that it's supposed to be him.
  
>Wouldn't it be cool if Chris got a hold of this demo and mixed it in >his
>version of Fluttergirl on his album, so it would be like a duet? >That
>would be eerie....

that would be eerie... and so damn cool. it sounds interesting and exciting
and yet somewhat perverse/petrifying enough for chris to maybe
consider......a hommage to jeff in a way? fluttergirl is a sweet song who
wouldn't want to try it out? :)
Two men doing a duet of Flutter Girl.  HAAAAAAAA!!!

Amy
 
 
 

 
  --------------808A215300347F31FB558D73-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:15:44 EDT From: Matt Hammons Subject: chris in satan's bedroom? --part1_4276cea5.24b547b0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_4276cea5.24b547b0_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Nothng2Say@aol.com From: Nothng2Say@aol.com Full-name: Nothng2Say Message-ID: <4276cea5.24b54786@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:15:02 EDT Subject: Re: chris in satan's bedroom? To: a5b215@IAMERICA.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sorry guys, I thought it was Chris at first. But it's really Skeet Ulrich, you know, the killer in Scream (The one that was Neve's Boyfriend), as well as the guy who modeled for Greg Kinnear in As Good As it Gets then had all his friends beat the shit out of him. Matt --part1_4276cea5.24b547b0_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:20:40 -0700 From: Vikki Anselmo Subject: Re: chris in satan's bedroom? It's not Chris (I did a double take too). It's the teenage serial killer from the movie Scream. -Vikki :) On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:11:46 EDT Charlie Mccutcheon writes: >anybody see the south park movie? >...look for the huge poster of what looks like chris cornell over satan's bed. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:05:32 +1000 From: Jenkins Subject: Re: Fw: Mark Sandman Dies (fwd)] Fucker? it's not my fault i had absolutely no idea who this person was, thats why i was ASKING. OPEN YOUR FUCKIN EYES. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Snodgrass To: Jenkins Date: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 2:55 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Mark Sandman Dies (fwd)] > > >Jenkins wrote: >> >> And this has to do with Soundgarden how? >> Sorry, but I have no idea who this guy was or the band >> -RetroCow- > > >It has nothing to do with Soundgarden... But have a little fucking >respect. The guy who was important to many, some of which are on this >list, died over the weekend. there was no warning. It's a sad thing. I >mean.. i had just talked with the guy a few weeks ago. I didn't know >that anything off the subject of the song orders of the albums was not >acceptable. I will stop trying to inform fans of other bands than >Soundgarden of what is happening in the music world. And just to let you >know... this post has nothing to do with soundgarden either, fucker. > >-- >-AS >mailto:asnod@home.com >http://members.home.net:80/asnod/ > >|---------------------------------------------------------------| >| "Everybody likes my stuff! Everybody knows that I can rock! | >| Everybody knows that I can whip a horse's ass! | >| Everybody in my general time knows that I can rock good. | >| And as I rock well, I'm going to rev it up!" | >| | >| - Wesley Willis | >|---------------------------------------------------------------| > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:28:07 PDT From: Jen Brittingham Subject: Re: Whats it all about? I'm sorry if I offended anyone, by posting information on SG/MLB/PJ some people already knew. All I was trying to do is inform the people on the list, who might not know or may be alittle confused on the connection. I figured most of you already knew, I just wanted to post it for those who didn't. Even if it was only one person who didn't know. I only was trying to contribute to the list. I enjoy all of the posts each day, and rarely post anything....I wasn't trying to make anyone feel like a idiot or fill up anyones email. I felt that someone new to Soundgarden(not the list) might like the information and pass it on, like I did in '92. I'm still learning new things everyday (now thanks to the list) and I am very greatful. Sorry again (If it really bothered you) and thanks for all the people on the list who give "newbies" a chance. Jennifer _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:30:41 EDT From: Charlie Mccutcheon Subject: Re: chris in satan's bedroom? In a message dated 7/7/99 9:23:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, velmo@JUNO.COM writes: > It's not Chris (I did a double take too). It's the teenage serial killer > from the movie Scream. -Vikki :) > thanks for the clarification, all. charlie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:10:32 EDT From: Matt Hammons Subject: Re: Mark Sandman First of all to the insensitive prick who was whining about this tragic post not having any SG content, well..................I guess calling you an insensitive prick is plenty. Anyway, I remember they practically played all of Morphine's album "Yes" before Pond, RFTC, and SG tok the stage in Sacramento in December of 1996. So there!! SG Content..... I guess. Matt, Likes the newbies, Was a newbie once too ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:46:20 EDT From: Mike Gallagher Subject: Re: Ben and Nirvana In a message dated 7/7/99 3:41:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sleeveless@citynet.net writes: << > Just how much > effect do you think Ben has had on Soundgarden? Huge. Ben got them out of that awful Jason-era headbanger thing they were teetering dangerously close to. It wasn't just punk he added, but a different approach in general. Ben thinks and plays from another angle than most people. >> Whoo Hoo! A bass discussion! Ben's effect on Soundgarden? Oh where to begin? Ben's style completely changed Soundgarden. They went from a rockin', stompin', groovin' band to a highly artistic rockin', stompin', not-as-groovin' band. Not that Hiro wasn't awesome. He's probably one of my top 5 favorite bassists (Vic Wooten, Flea, Jaco Pastorius, Steffan Lessard, Hiro/Muzz Skillins tie, oh yeeeeah!). Hiro had such a recognizable groove. He knew what funk was. Listen to Flower and a lot of the stuff off of Louder Than Love, and then listen to Badmotorfinger. Totally different bass styles. Hiro was up in the forefront, while Ben was more in the background (which is probably what how he liked it). But the major difference I find between Hiro and Ben was their musical approach. Ben was a musician first and a bassist second (probably cuz he's a serious guitarist as well). He and Matt were an AMAZING rhythm section (they're not Steffan Lessard and Carter Beauford, but who is?). Hiro and Matt knew what they were doing together, but they didn't share the same vibe as Ben and Matt did. Which is funny because I know Matt has a jazz background and I really think that Hiro was a bassist first, and that he knows that instrument better than any other, so you'd figure they'd be a better fit (I've begun to ramble... dammit! i've lost all signs of intelligence). I know I'm a bassist first, and the drummer in my band and I are on a completely different page at times. That's the difference. Wherever there was Matt, there was Ben, and vice versa. Hiro sometimes drifted into Happy Hiro land, which resulted in some of the coolest grooves. What am I talking about? When I can write coherantly, I'll finish this analysis. But for now... MAY DA FUNK BE WITCHOO!! --Mike-- P.S.- Please never mention anything involving Jason Everman and bass in the same sentence. He does not count. There was no Jason era. Never happened. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:50:49 EDT From: Mike Gallagher Subject: Re: chris in satan's bedroom? In a message dated 7/7/99 5:15:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CTMc4@AOL.COM writes: << anybody see the south park movie? well, if you haven't but intend to (i would suggest it if you can handle it) look for the huge poster of what looks like chris cornell over satan's bed. if it's not him it reeally looks like him. it would be one of his introspective poses. it's pretty damn funny, too, considering satan is gay. just see the movie. thanks charlie >> It was Johnny Depp. I thought that was a brilliant thing to throw in. It did look a lot like Chris though. AWESOME MOVIE!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:54:21 EDT From: Mike Gallagher Subject: Re: chris in satan's bedroom? In a message dated 7/7/99 8:20:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Nothng2Say@AOL.COM writes: << Sorry guys, I thought it was Chris at first. But it's really Skeet Ulrich, you know, the killer in Scream (The one that was Neve's Boyfriend), as well as the guy who modeled for Greg Kinnear in As Good As it Gets then had all his friends beat the shit out of him. Matt >> are you sure? it really looked like Johnny Depp. Who cares. ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 7 Jul 1999 to 8 Jul 1999 **********************************************