From: Automatic digest processor To: Recipients of SOMMS digests Subject: SOMMS Digest - 14 Jun 1999 to 15 Jun 1999 Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 2:01 AM There are 14 messages totalling 726 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. no news to me (5) 2. Comments on the LA article (2) 3. Bad attitude. (mild rant) 4. sell out? 5. prejudgements 6. More fuel to the fire 7. big article w/ recent picture in LA times!!! 8. Intimate concerts 9. Sunshower To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 03:03:09 -0400 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: no news to me > Chris I am sure still has > complete control of the project. Well, Nick, I hope you are right, but if you listen to many successful artists' complaints about major label deals and money-seeking labels and managers, usually the first thing they say is "we lost control of the music, and we never wanted that to happen." To answer multiple other people's comments: No, I don't expect SG. I don't want to hear Chris ride the coattails of his former band by putting out some diluted version of SG. All I want from him is good quality music. I did say somewhere in my previous post that I would try to wait till I heard it to judge it, and I usually do ignore reviews, however, I feel like I'm being hit over the head with reviews of this work, without a chance to hear anything from it yet to support or refute them. But with the dollar signs seeming to adorn everything Guerinot says, it sorta irks me that I might have to actually buy it to do that. They have us suckered there! They are going to be getting our money whether we end up liking the product or not. For me, Sunshower was a let down. I never considered it good quality. Fluttergirl? That was a let down too. First time I heard it I decided it should be called Fluffygirl. It's fluff. Ave Maria was a big letdown for me too. Chris may have a good voice for rock, but not for operatic music. He sounded strained and out of place and I thought Eleven's musical interpretation of it was awful. As much as we may want it to be so, he is not good at everything. That's not to say he's only good at hard rock, lest someone misinterpret me here. The reason we judge him on Sunshower and Ave Maria? It's his latest released work and it's solo. It's the closest thing chronologically we have to Chris now. As for excusing Sunshower because it's a movie soundtrack song that may have been written specifically for the movie- there is an excellent situation for someone to prove their prowess as a singer/songwriter, to be able to write and perform good quality music even within certain constraints. In my opinion, he didn't do that. All that having been said, perhaps, and hopefully, Sunshower, Ave Maria, and Fluttergirl are not benchmarks for what this album will be like. Carmen and Marta- help us out here. Tell us what Can't Change Me is really like. Does it resemble any past songs of Chris's, SG or otherwise? Is it honestly good quality music, or is it just exciting because it's new? Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:55:51 PDT From: The Koggle Subject: Re: no news to me Hey again forgive the incessant posting but it's Queenie's Birthday and a public holiday down under.. >Ave Maria was a big >letdown for me too. Chris may have a good voice for rock, but not for >operatic music. He sounded strained and out of place and I thought >Eleven's musical interpretation of it was awful. I have to say that I personally like Ave Maria. I had it out today and played it at least twice. The first ever couple of listens were like "hmm okay.." but it grew on me. I don't think it was ever meant to be polished or opera-like. It was a different take on it and i think it worked well. The heavy music and backing vocals added to it.. To me, it was something totally different from what I thought Chris (or anyone from Soundgarden) could/would do. His voice didn't sound strained to me at all. It was actually a surprise that he sounded so good doing a song that focused so much on vocals. It wasn't a letdown for me because i didn't expect anything in particular, hell i didn't even know what Ave Maria was (after hearing it now, i recognise it all the time in movies with weddings, and i still like Chris' version). Which is why i prefer not to read reviews before the music. >As much as we may want >it to be so, he is not good at everything. Sure, he's not a perfect god (in reality anyway! hehe), but i think he is pretty damn close. Like i said in a previous post; what music style can't he do?? I look at my SG collection and sometimes it just hits me that all these songs came from the same band, and i realise that's why they're my favourite band. Chris was a part of that band. His singing might have been arranged and worked out by others in the group, but it was still his voice. It was still his voice in Beyond the Wheel, She likes Surprises and Boot Camp.. and there are plenty more examples you could choose from. How come i feel like i'm having to defend Chris and his music? Have some of you lost faith in him just from a magazine article? the power of the media huh... >The reason we >judge him on Sunshower and Ave Maria? It's his latest released work and >it's solo. It's the closest thing chronologically we have to Chris >now. Yeah but 2 or 3 songs just aren't enough to get a strong opinion on someone (and their future career). Maybe i would judge another singer by only a few of their releases, but Chris is a different story since i've heard (and enjoyed) what he did with Soundgarden. I'll wait until i've heard more, thanks.. >As for excusing Sunshower because it's a movie soundtrack song >that may have been written specifically for the movie- there is an >excellent situation for someone to prove their prowess as a >singer/songwriter, to be able to write and perform good quality music >even within certain constraints. In my opinion, he didn't do that. I don't own Sunshower so i can't really talk about it in depth, but was it really *that* terrible? Hearing it on the radio used to put me in a good mood and make me smile.. "Oh it's all right.." i don't know, i like the feel of that line in the chorus. Am I alone in slightly liking it? It DID suit the movie.. A powerful ballad would have been out of place, even though it would have been a brilliant display of his talents. The scene where it was played was two teenagers making romantic moves on each other and it was sort of awkward (Sunshower starts out awkwardly) and then they get more comfortable with their actions/bodies/organs heh.. (i feel the song gets stronger in the chorus). It suits the movie, which is what it was meant to do. I seem to recall MANY PEOPLE suggesting that this song was about Susan or the band break-up when it was first released.. Those are important issues, which only a good/powerful/touching song could suit ... where are you now that this song is being picked at? One more thing on a slightly different topic.. what happened to that fund raiser lunch thing Chris was auctioned off for? Did vikki really win it?? Has it happened? Anyone know anything about it? later Koggle ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:33:11 -0700 From: "J.C." Subject: Re: no news to me > They have us suckered there! Well don't buy it then if it makes you so indignant. No one's forcing you to. > For me, > Sunshower was a let down. I never considered it good > quality. > Fluttergirl? That was a let down too. First time I > heard it I decided > it should be called Fluffygirl. It's fluff. Ave > Maria was a big > letdown for me too. Chris may have a good voice for > rock, but not for > operatic music. He sounded strained and out of place > and I thought > Eleven's musical interpretation of it was awful. As > much as we may want > it to be so, he is not good at everything. What's with all this dissing of Sunshower? I think the song's great. I just put it on to reasure myself, and it is. If you don't like that song I think that it's pretty safe to say you won't like his album, . Most singer, song-writers would be immensely jealous of the texture and mood Chris creates with that song. Fluttergirl fluff? Why, because it didn't have a heavy riff in it? I'm struggling to find where you're coming from with this stuff. Your picking on Ave Maria?!? I took that song as just a bit of fun. Talk about a pessimist. Jay. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:19:59 -0400 From: michele Subject: Comments on the LA article I just have a few things to say, Chris NEW manager Jim Guerinot & Tom Whalley, president of Interscope Records. Are EVIL (in a bad way) they make me sick, they are all about the money. That fact that Chris has to work with these people really disturbs me. This article disturbs me, it's like a slap in the face. Comparing Chris with Ricky Martin egads! that guy didn't even write his own lyrics. It's all plastic the poppy bands MR. Guerinot compared Chris with 40 the exterior may be pleasant to look at but the foundation or Music is Crap. I almost get the feeling that Chris is gonna get bullied around by MR industry & end up posing for teen magazines such as Bop next to those cheesy boy bands. It just seems like everything are beloved Chris was against he is now for according to Mr. Guerinot. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quotes from Chris: > "The idea with this record is that people won't be coming to smash into > each other so much as it is people coming to hear the songs," Cornell > says, noting that he won't be playing any Soundgarden songs and will > be booking sit-down theaters. "I'm really looking forward to that." Sit down theaters this REALLY scares me. Michele~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:28:48 +0200 From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?And=E9r?= Subject: Bad attitude. (mild rant) Am I the only one to be annoyed by the somewhat bad attitude a lot of people on this list show when commenting on Chris' new album, his manager or whatever? Lighten up, folks! Chris has a lot of money, so why would he sell out? He is one of the very few persons in the business who is in total control, musically and financially, and doesn't _need_ to do _anything_. He would never do anything that he himself doesn't want to do. And if Chris Cornell wants to play top 40 songs, do duets with Ricky Martin and marry Britney Spears, it's OK by me. Show a little respect dammit. It's most likely his decision. janesez@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > No Susan Silver, Yes Eleven= Middle Aged Yucky Chris. Chris is in his mid 30:s, he's got to stop headbanging at some point. Get over it. SokJunky55@AOL.COM wrote: > since when status, or "top 40s" mean anything to chris?? hello?? were we > like, lied to by him when he was with Soundgarden when he said that they > never meant to be famous and just did it for the music?? You decide: 1. He was full of shit back then. 2. He is full of shit now. 3. His manager is full of shit. 4. The article is full of shit. Big deal anyway... fluttagrrly08@WEBTV.NET wrote: > Nothing in that L.A. times article is true. How can anybody believe that > CC would release anything remotely pop, is beyond me. Can you say "the Beatles" (or "Black Hole Sun" for that matter)? Chris is obviously a big fan (I'm not) and I would classify most of the Beatles' work as pop. Exactly what is wrong with pop itself anyway? Seems everybody is trying to show how much of a hardcore rock/metal/whatever fan he or she is by putting down other genres. Especially anything remotely electronic gets a lot of bashing. Massive Attack anyone? Finally, The mighty Koggle wrote: > You don't know if Chris wants a new audience exactly.. He (aparently) was > talking about having more relaxed concerts. No moshing, sitting down in > chairs (heaven forbid) etc.. And maybe that offended alot of you, but i > think i know what it implied: Chris doesn't want to/can't rock out forever. > It's like what we were discussing a few weeks back about the Rolling Stones > and the Beatles and how bands/singers change with time or they get stale.. > Maybe he's just afraid of getting stale. Amen. Thank you. Finally a sane person. Flame away, /martin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:47:55 +0800 From: Raven Nation Subject: sell out? is this discussion really about chris going top 40? or is it about US going top 40? i mean are we afraid that others, those not belonging to the exclusive ALTERNATIVE crowd, would like the NEW chris. it is just what that guy said in 'hype', something like you liking a band than suddenly you find everybody else listening to that band & you end up not liking them anymore. i think chris is such a talented musician that eventually the mainstream audience will discover him & eat him up. it is something we can't stop, that la times article is just trying to hasten the process a bit more. but eventually the pop audience wil realize that chris' music is too good for them, they'll go back to their crap sounds, leaving OUR chris to the real fans. then everything will be back to like before, normal, when chris was exclusively OURS. but bad things can happen. these new fans might not get tired of chris. they'll have him every minute of their lives. you will hear chris voice everywhere you go [like 1 of us said, at the dentist's]. chris releasing this solo effort ends up exposing his music to a broader audience, showing EVERYBODY what good music really is. good music that alienates US. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:15:24 -0400 From: Kendrick N Kay Subject: prejudgements i have to agree with geoff insofar that i think all this outrage and anger is pretty unfounded and is pretty pointless, considering that the vast majority of us haven't heard a single song from the album. furthermore, those now infamous comments supposedly by chris' manager has been taken way out of context... (1) for one thing, it's a statement by a business-oriented salesperson/manager (do you expect him to say that chris' upcoming album will be very hard to like?) (2) for another thing, it doesn't seem reasonable to characterize his comments as "comparing" chris to those..lesser..pop bands/artists--the manager just seemed to be saying that cornell's music can potentially open him up to the pop world which includes such kinds of pop music. (3) why do we care about anything the manager says (especially in light of the fact that we haven't even heard the album?)? do we really care how popular chris will become, or do we care more about the MUSIC itself?? (4) some of the previous posting on somms attempt to attack the manager's comments word-by-word, but, come on, it's just a press interview and, moreover, it's just a newspaper article...i'm sure not much forethought was put into those comments.. and a general sentiment of hostility/negativity--not rationality--seems to be source of such nit-picky attacks. it seems to me that there is a lot of pent-up anxiety being transformed into doomsday-ish predictions here.. (or maybe it's the need to post on somms about something) and i guess that's ok.. as long as you realize that a lot of what is being said doesn't make that much .. sense. nor should it matter. (i.e., i think most of us would agree that it's the music, not the hype or public outlook, that matters.) on the other hand, i think the previous posting about why Sunshower is not a very "good" song was interesting and revealing--that is an example of constructive criticism/discussion. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:47:45 -0500 From: Mike Jones Subject: Re: no news to me > Fluttergirl? That was a let down too. First time I heard it I decided > it should be called Fluffygirl. It's fluff. Ok, you heard Fluttergirl from "Stolen Prayers", right? On that Fluttergirl was a demo from freakin' 1994. There are two reasons you shouldn't relate 1994 demos to his new album: A) It was 5 years ago, there's been lots of stuff happening since then B) It was an incomplete demo, no drums, no bass. It was just vocals and guitar. How are you going to keep that from being "Fluffy"? With just the vocals and guitars it's stripped down right to the music, how are you supposed to make it rocking? I mean, the first solo effort by Chris was Seasons, that was just vocals and guitar too. That was a good song, good chord switches, progression, etc. Same with Fluttergirl. And I also believe someone said "Nowhere But You" should be on there? That is one exception, that song could be very rocking, you can just hear the drum parts in there. I wouldn't mind that being on there. :) Also, I want to say how everyone's been raggin' Chris for saying something like how us Soundgarden fans juts came to slam into each other? For every one out there who went to a concert, do you remember people who came in with, lets say, a Metallica shirt on and did nothing but headbang? These are the type of people who only listen to music to headbang to, and when Superunknown came out, "oh, whats this? New heavy music I can headbang to?" they said. I think there were a lot more of these type of people than intelligent people like us who listened to the music. Besides, those kind of people weren't their fans anymore when DOTU came out, because most of the songs werent as heavy as songs on Superunknown. But anybody else who went to a concert: did you already know the songs before you went? More than likely. You went to see them live, to hear the smart-ass remarks Chris made, as well as listening. But there were also times that you slammed into each other, am I correct? All I'm saying is that Chris got tired of these people and wanted people to sit down and LISTEN to the music. To APPRECIATE it. This is a little cockiness on his part, but he's been rather modest throughout Soundgarden, I think he can loosen up a bit and say a little bit more on his mind. My thoughts, sure they're rambling, but what are ya gonna do? Andy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:37:41 -0700 From: alexandre nanoglou Subject: Re: Comments on the LA article hi I just want to say that it is ridiculous to speak about the chris cornell album and his work before the 21 september. we will can speak about the album when it will be avalaible --- michele a icrit: > I just have a few things to say, > Chris NEW manager Jim Guerinot & Tom Whalley, > president of Interscope Records. > Are EVIL (in a bad way) they make me sick, they are > all about the money. > That fact that Chris has to work with these people > really disturbs me. > This article disturbs me, it's like a slap in the > face. Comparing Chris > with Ricky Martin egads! that guy didn't even write > his own lyrics. It's > all plastic the poppy bands MR. Guerinot compared > Chris with 40 the > exterior may be pleasant to look at but the > foundation or Music is Crap. > I almost get the feeling that Chris is gonna get > bullied around by MR > industry & end up posing for teen magazines such as > Bop next to those > cheesy boy bands. It just seems like everything are > beloved Chris was > against he is now for according to Mr. Guerinot. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Quotes from Chris: > > "The idea with this record is that people won't be > coming to smash into > > each other so much as it is people coming to hear > the songs," Cornell > > says, noting that he won't be playing any > Soundgarden songs and will > > be booking sit-down theaters. "I'm really looking > forward to that." > > Sit down theaters this REALLY scares me. > > Michele~ > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:39:59 -0500 From: tonerkin Subject: More fuel to the fire Subject: Re: no news to me > >Ok, you heard Fluttergirl from "Stolen Prayers", right? On that >Fluttergirl was a demo from freakin' 1994. There are two reasons you >shouldn't relate 1994 demos to his new album: yeah but there's one huge reason you should. It is ON the new album... Did you know that? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:41:03 PDT From: Monnica Lewis Subject: Re: big article w/ recent picture in LA times!!! I'll bet the new record company has a lot to do with this "let's package Chris as a teeny bopper" problem. I'm not very familiar with the new company but, it may be that they want to be known for "specializing" in pop or something. How many albums has Chris signed up for with this co? Who picked this manager? Monnica >From: "J.C." >Reply-To: "J.C." >To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: Re: big article w/ recent picture in LA times!!! >Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:17:46 -0700 > > > never in my life did I think that Sugar > > Ray/Smashmouth and Chris could be > > remotely compared!!! sounds like guernot's > > broadening his horizons...all the > > way to the top 40... i can imagine what you all must > > be thinking! > > >Is Chris's manager trying to alineate soundgarden fans >or something? It sure reads like it. Chris used to >get upset about being compared to Led Zep, now he's >being compared to Sugar Ray, by his own manager! I >mean, come on. > >Jay. > > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1981 18:45:32 -0400 From: Marc Potvin Subject: Intimate concerts Hey there! > Sit down theaters this REALLY scares me. Why? I don't think it should, and tonerkin explained very well why: ""Maybe some of you have never been to a concert in a "nice" place where you can sit in a comfortable chair with a sound system that i= s clear and clean and the sight lines good! Not have a moron kick you in t= he back of the head or stomp on your foot. Have a drink and get lost in the music of a performer. I could see Chris preforming in a small club and giving us a wonderful show...not Soundgarden but for those of us that enj= oy Chris's vocals and lyrics enough bang for our buck!""" I couldn't agree more with tonerkin's thoughts. Of course, like most of you, I like concerts were hell breaks loose; but i've been numerous times= to shows in sit-down theatres and have always been impressed by them. Particularly the ones that were held in SMALL venues. When the performer= s are doing a good job, the audience really feels close to the songs and th= e band/artist, which isn't always the case in bigger shows (i remember bein= g stuck with lousy tickets waaaay back in an arena, not being able to see anything) I would kill to see one of those shows by Chris. The way I se= e it, Chris wants to try new things, and I can't wait to hear what new soun= ds he'll come up with. After all, change is a part of life. Speaking of new sounds, has anyone else out there heard the Tea Party's n= ew album : triptych? Based on what the manager said (Guerrinottisdisshen) about the use of electronics, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris's album sounded a little bit like it (strong vocals, acoustics, blasting guitars, keyboards here and there, etc.). (if anyone wants to talk about the Tea Party, e-mail me privately!). Finally: ""I don't own Sunshower so i can't really talk about it in depth, but was= it really *that* terrible? Hearing it on the radio used to put me in a good mood and make me smile.. "Oh it's all right.." i don't know, i like the f= eel of that line in the chorus. Am I alone in slightly liking it? It DID sui= t the movie.. A powerful ballad would have been out of place, even though i= t would have been a brilliant display of his talents. The scene where it wa= s played was two teenagers making romantic moves on each other and it was s= ort of awkward (Sunshower starts out awkwardly) and then they get more comfortable with their actions/bodies/organs heh.. (i feel the song gets stronger in the chorus). It suits the movie, which is what it was meant t= o do."" Personnally, I do like Sunshower, although my opinion is biased because I relate the song to a very intense and rather happy memory of mine. Also, I've never seen the movie; my perception of the song would be different h= ad I done so. In short, I don't think I'll ever be able to rate Sunshower f= or what it is; but who cares, as long as the memory stays (might be a while)= , I'll always like the song!! I've tried to listen to it for the music and lyrics, but the memory keeps coming in. Amazing how we can associate moments (good and bad) in our life to songs. that's why I always try to make sure that I listen to a new record in a situation where I can associate good things to it. Example : I would ne= ver listen to Chris's new cd for the FIRST time while doing the dishes... := ) Gotta run Marc Potvin Inspecteur/Inspector Commission des Transports du Qu=E9bec Service des v=E9rifications et des inspections, Bureau de Qu=E9bec 200, chemin Ste-Foy, 7e =E9tage Qu=E9bec, Qc GIR 5V5 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:38:56 +1200 From: Adrian Humphrey Subject: Sunshower Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Sunshower is a damn good song. It is the best song I've heard from Chris' lips since Blow up the Outside World. He totally head the nail on the head with it, and it was perfectly suited to the film. I too have fond memories of that song and I am willing to defend it against any criticism. So what if they beat it to death on the radio? Who gives a crap? IT IS STILL A BRILLIANT SONG AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT. It may not have been a powerful ballard but it was powerful nonetheless. Whether or not anyone wants to admit it, this is one of the best songs Chris has written in a long time. ============================= Adi. I want chicken I want liver Meow Mix Meow Mix please deliver. ============================= ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 14 Jun 1999 to 15 Jun 1999 ************************************************