From: Automatic digest processor To: Recipients of SOMMS digests Subject: SOMMS Digest - 4 Jun 1999 to 5 Jun 1999 Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 2:02 AM There are 15 messages totalling 671 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. 2. your mail (2) 3. covers (2) 4. covers and point break 5. Louder than Love most commercial (3) 6. covers and Thankyou ..again... 7. Loud Love 8. improvision/cover/unreleased? (2) 9. Loud Love/I Awake (2) To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:48:37 +0100 From: johnny utah Subject: The song is Stray Cat Blues, the album is Beggars Banquet, the band is the Rolling Stones, and the band is admired by Soundgarden. In my humble opinion, SG's version is better than the original, unlike Smokestack Lightning, but the Stones were probably high for their recording of SCB. Furthertcb. _____________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:15:12 -0400 From: Kim Subject: Re: your mail On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, johnny utah wrote: > The song is Stray Cat Blues, the album is Beggars Banquet, the band is the > Rolling Stones, and the band is admired by Soundgarden. In my humble > opinion, SG's version is better than the original, unlike Smokestack > Lightning, but the Stones were probably high for their recording of SCB. > Furthertcb. Speaking of covers that Soundgarden has done, which ones do you guys think are superior to the originals? Although this may come off sounding like blasphemy, I love SG's version of 'Come Together.' It's just so strange and heavy, and although I highly respect the musicianship of the Beatles, I was never a big fan. Sorry if this thread has come up before. -Elliott "I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule." -Randal Graves, 'Clerks' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:53:07 +0100 From: johnny utah Subject: covers I think that Come Together is cool, but it slithers, it crawls, it's more Hiro Yamamoto era SG, and I personally was totally won over by Ben Shepherd's psychedelic Beatles-esque genius when he joined the band, and I remain a huge fan. I feel that SG's Into the Void was an excellent cover of Sabbath's song. I feel that Smokestack Lightning was never going to better Howlin' Wolf's classic original, it simply offers an interesting slant on it. But again, I feel that Soundgarden progressed in leaps and bounds after Ben joined and their sound changed. Whether Chris will admit it or not, songs from Louder Than Love like Gun or Get on the Snake WOULD, especially to the indie and pop world, sound out of place on Superunknown, anyone who feels that they wouldn't is not looking deeply enough, or just wants to agree with Chris. Chris said that people were wrong for assuming that any song would not fit on any other album, but I think that is just Chris denying that they became more commercial and compromised. This is not their fault; it's age and the industry. Furthertcb. _____________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:20:28 EDT From: Lydia Coffman Subject: Re: your mail On Fri, June 4, Elliott wrote: >Although this may come off sounding like >blasphemy, I love SG's version of 'Come Together.' It's just so strange and heavy, >and although I highly respect the musicianship of the Beatles, >I was never a big fan. I have to say that I totally agree. Another "blasphemous" statement I have to make, and I do apologize........Last Thursday I went to the first date of the Ozzfest tour for this year. Seeing Black Sabbath play was an experience beyond words; however, I have a copy of Soundgarden's cover of "Into the Void," and I have to admit that that I believe theirs was better. Kim's solo is more impressive (*in my humble opinion*) than Tony's. Like I said, it's just my opinion, though. Kari ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:43:26 GMT From: -The Cat- Subject: Re: covers >From: Kim >Reply-To: Kim >To: SOMMS@mitvma.mit.edu >Subject: Re: [SOMMS] your mail >Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:15:12 -0400 > >Speaking of covers that Soundgarden has done, which ones do you guys think >are superior to the originals? Big bottom, big bottom, talk about bong cakes my baby's got 'em.... >From: johnny utah >Reply-To: johnny utah >To: SOMMS@mitvma.mit.edu >Subject: [SOMMS] covers >Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:53:07 +0100 > >Whether Chris will admit >it or not, songs from Louder Than Love like Gun or Get on the Snake WOULD, >especially to the indie and pop world, sound out of place on Superunknown, You're forgetting Full On Kevin's Mom (or the reprise) =). >anyone who feels that they wouldn't is not looking deeply enough, or just >wants to agree with Chris. Chris said that people were wrong for assuming >that any song would not fit on any other album, but I think that is just >Chris denying that they became more commercial and compromised. This is >not their fault; it's age and the industry. I agree, most of the songs on Louder Than Love (last on my list of "favorite SG albums") just wouldn't fit on any of the other albums. But when did Chris say otherwise? It's as if he never listened to the band's albums.... I don't think it's the age and industry that changed Soundgarden, it's just that they were more willing to experiment, and wanted to try new things. Maybe the industry did change them a little, but that would be blamed on their attitude on touring more than anything. Perhaps that made their songs sound more "commercial" but I think a better word would be "accessible". The word commerical sound so money-driven. /\ /\ 'o' -The Cat- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The Ask The Cat page: http://come.to/askthecat -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:45:25 -0500 From: Joe Corroney Subject: covers and point break >From: Kim >Reply-To: Kim >To: SOMMS@mitvma.mit.edu >Subject: Re: [SOMMS] your mail >Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:15:12 -0400 > >Speaking of covers that Soundgarden has done, which ones do you guys think >are superior to the originals? >Big bottom, big bottom, talk about bong cakes my baby's got 'em.... I would have to say "Stray Cat Blues" is my favorite cover since being a Stones fan pre 80's era i actually liked the original. When i finally got my hands on a copy of SOMMS five years ago, i have forgotten what the Jagger/Richards version even sounded like (a rare exception with ANY band i feel that can improve upon an original, already very good, recording from (a used to be) A-class band. Hearing "Waiting for the Sun" (originally the Doors) live in 96 was awesome. It came out of nowhere in their set and was much darker, heavier, and moody than the original. It left a strong impression with me after their set and upon hearing it just the one time i would almost venture to say again that their version "was" slightly better than the Doors (also am a Doors fan), but then again i am very biased... Also, I absolutely love their version of "Thankyou (for letting me be myself again)" off of the NoseBleed boot. I think the original was done by Maceo and All the King's Men (classic R&B soul group). Sometimes i put the bootleg in just to hear that one cover song though the cd itself is all around a great recording quality-wise from the early Ultamega days. btw, Johhny Utah...didnt you used to play quarterback for Ohio State and star in a movie with Patrick Swayze about presidential bank robbing surfers? or am i confused? See ya Joe ---------- >From: johnny utah >To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: covers >Date: Fri, Jun 4, 1999, 12:53 PM > >I think that Come Together is cool, but it slithers, it crawls, it's more >Hiro Yamamoto era SG, and I personally was totally won over by Ben >Shepherd's psychedelic Beatles-esque genius when he joined the band, and I >remain a huge fan. I feel that SG's Into the Void was an excellent cover >of Sabbath's song. I feel that Smokestack Lightning was never going to >better Howlin' Wolf's classic original, it simply offers an interesting >slant on it. But again, I feel that Soundgarden progressed in leaps and >bounds after Ben joined and their sound changed. Whether Chris will admit >it or not, songs from Louder Than Love like Gun or Get on the Snake WOULD, >especially to the indie and pop world, sound out of place on Superunknown, >anyone who feels that they wouldn't is not looking deeply enough, or just >wants to agree with Chris. Chris said that people were wrong for assuming >that any song would not fit on any other album, but I think that is just >Chris denying that they became more commercial and compromised. This is >not their fault; it's age and the industry. >Furthertcb. btw, Johhny Utah...didnt you used to play quarterback for Ohio State and star in a movie with Patrick Swayze about presidential bank robbing surfers? or am i confused? See ya Joe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:50:20 -0700 From: "J.C." Subject: Re: Louder than Love most commercial > Whether Chris will admit > it or not, songs from Louder Than Love like Gun or > Get on the Snake WOULD, > especially to the indie and pop world, sound out of > place on Superunknown, > anyone who feels that they wouldn't is not looking > deeply enough, or just > wants to agree with Chris. Chris said that people > were wrong for assuming > that any song would not fit on any other album, but > I think that is just > Chris denying that they became more commercial and > compromised. This is > not their fault; it's age and the industry. Maybe it's just me, but I consider Louder than Love to be Soundgarden's most commercial album. Well at least their most accesible. Songs like Gun and Get on the Snake as you mentioned are fairly straight forward rockers in comparison to the elaborate compositions on SuperUnknown like Fourth of July, Mailman, Fresh Tendrils, Head Down etc... SuperUnknown takes a lot more time to get your head around to realise it's true brilliance. That = non-commerical, to me. Commerical = instant satisfaction. Jay. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:56:18 -0500 From: Joe Corroney Subject: Re: covers and Thankyou ..again... Ok, I just remembered Chris is quoted just before going into the song on Nosebleed saying "Thankyou for letting me be myself again) is a Sly and the Family Stones song but I think Maceo and All the King's Men recored it first...oh well just thought i would defend my ramblings before i get flamed..lol -Joe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:23:48 PDT From: The Koggle Subject: Re: Louder than Love most commercial Hey guys >Maybe it's just me, but I consider Louder than Love to >be Soundgarden's most commercial album. My first thought to this is: Where are the big hits from Louder than Love? If it is most commercial or most accessible (accessable?) album, wouldn't we expect everyone to own it and know all the songs? You say "Louder than Love" and people say "who?" but everyone knows "oh that song with the freaks in the video". Which is why I'm leaning towards Superknown as being #1 Commercial Album. Everyone knows of it, knows at least one of the songs (hmm which one would that be ;) and i *think* it got them their best reception on an album.. didn't Superunknown begin the award ceremonies and their talk of "we dont want to be famous, we just like playing"?.. I don't know, i've probably got this screwed up, but i think Superunknown started a bit of a enthusiasm for them from a range of people. Jay says Superunknown has more 'elaborate compositions' which would make it more difficult to get into your head. You mean musically, right? I think Superunknown has easier lyrics to remember.. "my waaave my waave my wave!!" And as far as i can recall, Superunknown doesn't have too many 'peculiar' songs. I was listening to I Awake yesterday.. I heard the intro in my sleep and i just had to listen to it when i got up. It's haunting and sad but caring at the same time.. I find it very sweet. The lyrics are interesting.. sounds really personal to me. But anyway i've lost my train of thought.. What i'm really trying to say is that I believe straight forwardness, simplicity of lyrics/music does not always mean popularity of the music. If it's really easy to 'get' it might get boring to some people. I love a song where you keep finding different layers to it every time you listen.. having it all out in the open and spelled out for you is boring. But maybe i have confused commercial success with popularity. Are they not the same thing? More people like music, more people buy the music, more commercial success.... right? i'll leave it right here.. Koggle ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:01:42 -0700 From: "J.C." Subject: Re: Louder than Love most commercial > My first thought to this is: Where are the big hits > from Louder than Love? > If it is most commercial or most accessible > (accessable?) album, wouldn't we > expect everyone to own it and know all the songs? > You say "Louder than Love" > and people say "who?" but everyone knows "oh that > song with the freaks in > the video". Which is why I'm leaning towards > Superknown as being #1 > Commercial Album. Yes, I forgot to cover this in my original post. Here I am arguing that Louder than Love is more commerical than SuperUnknown when it sold about 4 million less copies. I think there's a lot of reasons that SuperUnknown sold so many more. Grunge was at it's peak in popularity. People had actually heard of Soundgarden and knew they had an album out. It got video and radio play because the mainstream stations had moved to accomodate alternative rock where before they hadn't. They were from Seattle, and at that time Seattle was the most fashionable place on earth. Of course a huge reason SuperUnknown sold so much more than Louder than Love, is that it's a hell of a lot better (IMHO). I think a lot of the people that brought SuperUnknown only did so because it was fashionable at the time. I tend to think that half the people that brought it, didn't really like it. If they did, then why didn't they buy Down on the Upside when it came out? > Everyone knows of it, knows at least one of the > songs (hmm which one would > that be ;) and i *think* it got them their best > reception on an album.. > didn't Superunknown begin the award ceremonies and > their talk of "we dont > want to be famous, we just like playing"?.. I don't > know, i've probably got > this screwed up, but i think Superunknown started a > bit of a enthusiasm for > them from a range of people. > > Jay says Superunknown has more 'elaborate > compositions' which would make it > more difficult to get into your head. You mean > musically, right? Yes I mean muscially. It's much more multi-layed. The singin' is much more dynamic too. > I think > Superunknown has easier lyrics to remember.. "my > waaave my waave my wave!!" I wanna fuck fuck fuck fuck you! That's pretty easy to remember. SuperUnknown is definelty lyrically stronger, and not in a simple pop way, but in a complex poetic way. (this is turning into a what's better, rather than a what's more commericial, isn't it ;) > And as far as i can recall, Superunknown doesn't > have too many 'peculiar' > songs. SuperUnknown has the widest range of songs on any SG album. From weird mellow things like Half and Head Down to weird rocking things like She Likes Surprises and Spoonman. I've always found Black Hole Sun to be a bizarre song, so I'm really surprised it got so much radio play. > I was listening to I Awake yesterday.. I > heard the intro in my sleep > and i just had to listen to it when i got up. It's > haunting and sad but > caring at the same time.. I find it very sweet. The > lyrics are interesting.. > sounds really personal to me. I absolutely love I Awake. I think it's easily the best song on Louder than Love and one of the best SG songs ever. I love the mystery in the lyrics. "It's not your fault, I know it hurts". Obviously something terrible has happened to these people, and they're trying to go on with their lives. I always think of a couple who's baby has died, or maybe a misscarriage, but I guess it could be anything. And the chorus "Remember, I love you", is so anguished and sorrowful. Add to that the tumultuous music and you have an incredibly emotional song. Soundgarden at their finest. > What i'm really trying to say is that I believe > straight forwardness, > simplicity of lyrics/music does not always mean > popularity of the music. If > it's really easy to 'get' it might get boring to > some people. That's what I think about most of Louder than Love. Songs like Get on the Snake, Gun, Hands all over, Loud Love, Big Dumb Sex. It's the easiest to 'get'. The idea of pop is to make easily accessible, instantly satisfying songs that people will lap up. That is why Nirvana's Nevermind is called pop so often (I think?). >I love a song > where you keep finding different layers to it every > time you listen.. having > it all out in the open and spelled out for you is > boring. Yep. Absolutely. I find SuperUnknown is much more like that than Louder than Love. And that's why I don't think it's commerical. It isn't that 'quick fix' pop song. I'm not saying that Louder than Love is pop, just that it's more accessible than SuperUnknown. The thing about SuperUnknown though I guess, is that it is good for the first few listens too, but as you listen to it more you begin to fully realise how brilliant it is. After approx. 500+ listens, I'm still waiting to grow even the slightest bit sick of it. I doubt I've even listened to Louder than Love 100 times. > But maybe i have confused commercial success with > popularity. Are they not > the same thing? More people like music, more people > buy the music, more > commercial success.... right? Maybe I'm confusing commerical with pop. But I wouldn't say that Louder than Love is more pop than SuperUnknown. Mmmm, Now I'm completely confused! I don't believe you have to be pop or commerical to sell a lot of records. If you are good enough, people will begin to see the picture. I don't think SuperUnknown was a conscience effort to appeal to the masses. I think the lads just did what felt right, and it happened to reach a wider audiance than they had before. Perhaps more people started to 'get' it. Not enough though, as evidenced by the poorer sales of Down on the Upside. Jay. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:29:35 PDT From: Ryan Gilbert Subject: Loud Love I don't know why all of you are ragging on Louder Than Love. That is still one of my favorite SG albums. I don't know why. It may not be as musically complex as the later albums, but I still think it's one of the cooler sounding ones. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:23:44 -0500 From: Kendrick Kay Subject: improvision/cover/unreleased? dude! from 7/27/96. The reviews of this lolla 96 show were right.. chris performs solo some song that is definitely not in the sg realm. anyone know what this is? (improvision/cover/unreleased?) check it out: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~kay/unknown.mp3 or check out my sg page or wares http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~kay/limowreck/ or http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~kay/sg.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:55:54 PDT From: The Koggle Subject: Re: Loud Love/I Awake >I don't know why all of you are ragging on Louder Than Love. That is still >one of my favorite SG albums. No one's ragging on Louder than Love. Since it's your favorite, does that mean you listen to it all the time? Something Jay said makes me feel like it's not an album you could comfortably listen to all day every day (okay even the best of CDs would get tired after hours on end). I agree with him. I like the songs on the album, but i haven't listened to it as much as other albums. Why is that? >I think a lot of the people that brought SuperUnknown only did so >because >it was >fashionable at the time. I tend to think that half >the people that brought it, didn't really like it. If >they did, then why didn't they buy Down on the Upside when it came out? Maybe they wanted another Superunknown, heard (from the radio play of Pretty Noose, BIMH etc)that it wasn't, and moved on to another band. Maybe they loved Superunknown and thought DOTU was the band 'going soft' or whatever, and just refused anything on top of the already perfect Badmotorfinger and Superunknown. I laugh when i hear people rubbishing No Code or the newer Metallica stuff (not that i have any preferences i wish to share).. Like it suddenly became cool to only like the band's earlier releases in case someone thought they got into the band much later and weren't as big of a fan. The new stuff is always wussier and boring.. the older stuff louder, harder and exciting.. Is it an X-file? >I love the mystery in the lyrics. "It's >not your fault, I know it hurts". Obviously something >terrible has happened to these people, and they're >trying to go on with their lives. I always think of a >couple who's baby has died, or maybe a misscarriage, >but I guess it could be anything. And the chorus >"Remember, I love you", is so anguished and sorrowful. >Add to that the tumultuous music and you have an >incredibly emotional song. Soundgarden at their finest. Definitely.. I Awake might now competes with Drawing Flies on my favourites list. But I never thought of the letter being about a miscarriage before (i'm saying letter because i understand Hiro wrote a letter to his wife? and they used the note as the lyrics because Chris liked them so much. Feel free to correct this if i'm wrong). I always saw it as something bad happening the night before. He's cheated on the woman he loves and she's found out and not talking to him and now he feels like shit and regrets it all. He woke up depressed, left for work.. He wants her to not be upset about it, to have a good day. Because it's not her fault he's been an asshole. He knows his actions hurt her, but he wants her to remember how much he loves her.. I've never really heard a guy sound so apologetic and honest! heheh Well i know a song that needs some heavy duty listening right now.. later Koggle ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:11:32 -0600 From: Fluttergirl Subject: Re: improvision/cover/unreleased? That MP3 was pretty cool. Too bad I couldn't tell what he was saying. Except for: "Wouldn't you miss me, wouldn't you miss me at all." It will be a pleasant suprise, however, that if the song appears on his solo album, that we will already be able to sing with the chorus the first time we hear it. Fluttergirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:13:41 -0600 From: Fluttergirl Subject: Re: Loud Love/I Awake I Awake was written by Hiro's girlfriend to him. ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 4 Jun 1999 to 5 Jun 1999 **********************************************