SOMMS Digest - 9 Nov 1998 to 10 Nov 1998 [ 28KB. ] [ Unable to print this part. ] There are 22 messages totalling 786 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. A.P. MAGAZINE (7) 2. Fwd: A.P. MAGAZINE 3. hype (2) 4. B-Sides singles (4) 5. But why? 6. But why? Seth why? (2) 7. A clerification? (3) 8. This lack of respect.... 9. Where were you 11-9-96??? To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:32:59 EST From: Lance Huber Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE In a message dated 11/8/98 8:54:23 PM, inri@ottawa-hull.crosswinds.net wrote: <> Ahhhh how sweet it is to see the opinions of the un-enlightened, the ignorant, the uninformed, the misled and the uneducated. It's nice to know the lesser minded people are indeed out there and polluting the list. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:44:38 EST From: Mike Liacone Subject: Fwd: A.P. MAGAZINE This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_910626278_boundary Content-ID: <0_910626278@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_910626278_boundary Content-ID: <0_910626278@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: LimoWreck5@aol.com Return-path: To: inri@ottawa-hull.crosswinds.net Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:22:12 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/9/98 5:28:09 AM Central Standard Time, inri@ottawa- hull.crosswinds.net writes: << thats not what i meant.........i meant that it didn't make any impact in the music scene........and that's mostly what they were measuring there. >> id be interested to see this list, because i need to know these bands that have contributed to the music world. and remember, just because it made "an impact" doesnt make it good. --part0_910626278_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:31:01 EST From: Rachel Potter Subject: hype Friday 8:00 am SUND Hype! 1996 documentary on the Seattle grunge scene features interviews and performance footage with Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Mudhoney, the Melvins, the Gits, the Posies, Screaming Trees, Gas Huffer, 7 Year Bitch and others; highlights include Nirvana's first live performance of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" I've never heard of that network... but maybe some of you can catch it. -rachel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:42:48 -0600 From: Amy Subject: B-Sides singles What sinles do you think will be released off of the B-Sides album? I'm talking about radio songs. I know that nobody knows for sure which b-sies will be on the album; but just assume they'll all be on there. I'm hoping for at least Toy Box and Blind Dogs. Birth Ritual (demo) would be good but I doubt it will be a single. Kyle Petty would be great but there's no way it will be a single. Amy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:51:03 -0500 From: Dave George-Cosh Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE >In a message dated 11/8/98 8:54:23 PM, inri@ottawa-hull.crosswinds.net wrote: > ><> > >Ahhhh how sweet it is to see the opinions of the un-enlightened, the ignorant, >the uninformed, the misled and the uneducated. > >It's nice to know the lesser minded people are indeed out there and polluting >the list. OK..I'm starting to get pissed off here...not only do you not care for other people's opinions, but you bash them at the same time. I get the picture that you're just a sad little man who just wants attention. You have abolutely no right to put down a person's ideas if it doesn't agree with your own. I wouldn't be surprised now if Seth gave you a talking to by now...you need some authority in your life. Dave Webmaster of Seasons:The Unofficial Chris Cornell Website http://www.golden.net/~cosh There's a guy who spits up blood And he knows my name, And he chews on broken glass But its all the same --- Human Torch, Rocket From The Crypt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:06:11 EST From: Mike Liacone Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE In a message dated 11/9/98 1:59:39 PM Central Standard Time, cosh@GOLDEN.NET writes: << OK..I'm starting to get pissed off here...not only do you not care for other people's opinions, but you bash them at the same time. I get the picture that you're just a sad little man who just wants attention. You have abolutely no right to put down a person's ideas if it doesn't agree with your own. >> im starting to get pissed to. how can you talk about bashing someone when you call him "a sad little man, who wants attention"???? hes just trying to voice his opinion as is everyone else. Inri has responded to me saying that "he and a lot of other people diasgree. simple enough" now talk about lack of respect for one's opinion. part of having an open mind, is accepting that some people are closed minded, by choice. so just let them have at it, and stop trying to be the voice of reason, cuz its just gonna backfire. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:25:45 -0500 From: Seth Perlman Subject: But why? I think I've read enough posts about whether albums were good or bad or influential or impactful or not - especially the glut of posts that don't actually provide anything except an opinion with no valid argument. Here are some examples of posts that don't really make for interesting discussion and debate (these are not actual quotes, I'm making a point here): "I think it would be cool if Kim joined Monster Magnet." "Monster Magnet sucks, I'd hate Kim forever if he did that." "Superunknown is the best Soundgarden album." "No, it's not. Badmotorfinger is." "No, Superunknown." "I'm furious that AP Magazine didn't include TOTD." "TOTD sucks compared to music released in the 90s." "You obviously don't know anything about music." "You disagree with me, so you must be 14 years old." And so on. Let me put it bluntly, and this comes from Seth The Reader, not Seth The Listadmin: I don't care one bit about your opinion if you don't at least attempt to back it up with something. If you think Badmotorfinger was the best SG record, by all means tell us why you think so, and be specific. It's far more interesting to find that several people who have the same general opinion took entirely different directions to come to that conclusion than just getting a bunch of people to reply to each other to say "Me too". Flaming someone without supporting it is equally inane and contributes nothing. Thus ends the lesson for today, and let's all remember the irrefutable truth that Badmotorfinger is the best Soundgarden record. -seth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:42:16 -0500 From: inri Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE >Inri has responded to me saying that "he and >a lot of other people diasgree. simple enough" now talk about lack of >respect for one's opinion. well, you took that a bit out of context.......... here is the message : ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- >and totd >wa more than just a rock album, that cd has some of the most musically, and >lyrically powerful songs ive ever heard. ok.......so you think it was a good rock album. i, and it seems that many other people, disagree with you. simple enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- the point was that the reason totd isn't there is because it just doesn't belong there! it just didn't do anything special, like nirvana's nevermind or nin's downward spiral. i mean, just because a couple of people on this list think it's a good album does not mean that it belongs in a list of the top 100 of the decade.........or the best of the century! i'm sure i'm not the only one here, in the midst of what should be the bands strongest fanbase, that found totd boring. thats not disrespect towards your opinion, thats just the way it is. your opinion (and mine for that matter) are irrelevant. inri ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:30:11 -0500 From: The Hansens Subject: Re: B-Sides singles Ahhh..finally..a different subject. I don't know what Sg would put out = as a radio single. SG might not even put one out(you never know). But if = they did I would hope for Christi. I've only heard it once, but the = gutairs on that song are so good! It would be cool if they would put = "Cleaning my Gun" on the radio. Even though I haven't heard it. The = lyrics sound...interesting. Kareoke(spelling?) would sound cool on the = radio. I will have to agree w/ you about Kyle Petty, son of Richard. = Some radio stations would play it. I know the radio station I listen to = would. They play Ty Cobb on there sometimes so I'm sure they would play = Kyle Petty. Anyway..these are just some suggestions. I haven't heard = many of there B-sides so I can't really say much. How about someone who = has heard a lot of their b-sides? What one do you think they will put = out? -Thanx for reading my babble- -Liz-Mailman- ---------- From: Amy[SMTP:a5b215@iamerica.net] Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:42 PM To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: B-Sides singles What sinles do you think will be released off of the B-Sides album? I'm talking about radio songs. I know that nobody knows for sure which b-sies will be on the album; but just assume they'll all be on there. I'm hoping for at least Toy Box and Blind Dogs. Birth Ritual (demo) would be good but I doubt it will be a single. Kyle Petty would be great but there's no way it will be a single. Amy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:41:23 EST From: Mike Gallagher Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE In a message dated 11/8/98 10:54:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, inri@ottawa- hull.crosswinds.net writes: << >And speaking of best albums of the 90's can anybody guess why TEMPLE OF THE >DOG (the best album of the century) didn't make the list?????? because it doesn't deserve to be there maybe? it was just a straight up rock album........nothing special. >> I have two words for this person...BLASPHEMY and CRUCIFIXION ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:46:39 EST From: Mike Gallagher Subject: Re: B-Sides singles In a message dated 11/9/98 12:36:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, a5b215@iamerica.net writes: << Kyle Petty would be great but there's no way it will be a single. >> Well, Ty Cobb, though it didn't get much airplay, was considered one of Down On the Upside's singles. I think if the record company feels it should be released to the radios for play, then it might just be. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:52:12 EST From: Mike Gallagher Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE In a message dated 11/9/98 3:08:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, LimoWreck5@AOL.COM writes: << << OK..I'm starting to get pissed off here...not only do you not care for other people's opinions, but you bash them at the same time. I get the picture that you're just a sad little man who just wants attention. You have abolutely no right to put down a person's ideas if it doesn't agree with your own. >> im starting to get pissed to. how can you talk about bashing someone when you call him "a sad little man, who wants attention"???? hes just trying to voice his opinion as is everyone else. Inri has responded to me saying that "he and a lot of other people diasgree. simple enough" now talk about lack of respect for one's opinion. part of having an open mind, is accepting that some people are closed minded, by choice. so just let them have at it, and stop trying to be the voice of reason, cuz its just gonna backfire. >> I think if I see the word opinion one more time, I'm gonna go insane. If someone makes a stupid and ignorant comment, as this person did, it shouldn't matter what his opinion is. I think there is not another single person on this list that would agree with what this person said, and I for one am not in the mood to read crap like that. That's not what I'm on the list for, I'm on the list to talk about, hear about, and even learn about SOUNDGARDEN!! End of fuckin' story. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:14:24 EST From: Lance Huber Subject: Re: A.P. MAGAZINE OK Why is TOTD the greatest album ever? Oh hell.......where to start, where to start? Should I go song by song or just an all inclusive why? I'll be all inclusive. I can educate the ignorant quicker that way. LYRICS: Chris Cornell achieved with brillance on TOTD. He managed to write heart wrenching lyrics about the death of a friend without once crossing over into cliche or triteness. (i.e. "I never wanted to write these words down to you. All the pages of phrases of all the things we'll never do. So I'll blow out the candle and I'll put you to bed. Because you can't say to me now, how the world hurt your bones so there's just one thing left to be said"). And the brillance goes on from the romantic interludes on "All Night Thing" to the seething energy of "Pushing Forward Back" to the scathing religous commentary on "Wooden Jesus". In each and every song, Chris' lyrics are full of uniques imagery, passages, bridges and he doesn't commit the Scorpions- Cock-Rock sin of "Gee, lets see how many words we can get to rhyme with 'blue'". Chris came close to such brillance in his lyrics on Badmotorfinger and again on DOTU. But he never (nor has any writer in any medium in my opinion) captured such a powerful array of arranged words & phrases. The lyrics pages (sans music) could be published as a small collection of poetry that would easily stand on their own an rival the best works of Whitman, Strand or Carroll. MUSICALLY: The arrangements. The sheer driven emotion that is unleashed. The uniques blending of tuning and different instrumentations down to the goddamned mix. >From the opening chord to the final piano strum, the whole album is a tribute to everything that makes music great! It was one of those rare occurances in life when for a brief moment everything went right. Nothing is forced. Nothing is faked. It is raw emotion from heart ache to intensity to rage to love to confusion that is all communicated is "just" the music. whew..........I hope that is better Seth. Love, Lance aka "a small little man looking for attention" (Yes, please, heap some attention on me!) LOL PS------I told you I was right about Badmotorfinger. Don't believe me? Ask Seth!!!!! LOL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:46:40 EST From: Brian Coursen Subject: Re: But why? Seth why? Please Seth, why is Badmotorfinger the best album? Where is your argument to back this up? Of course I agree. My reasons for believing this are simply: 1. It was the first Soundgarden album I heard. Soundgarden, like a fine wine, grow better with age. So therefore Soundgarden, in my eyes could never record an album that would taste as sweet. This is also the reason that Outshined still remains the penultimate Soundgarden song, for me. 2. It defines the midpoint in their recording career for me. As the single album that could define Soundgarden, from Screaming Life/FOPP to DOTU, Badmotorfinger as the middle album is not that far in their progression from any of the other albums. 3. Seeing Soundgarden live in concert my most enjoyable moments have been moshing to Drawing flies and of course Outshined. Although if someone told me I could only listen to one Soundgarden album for the rest of my life, ooh I would kill myself or kill them. I don't think I could make that decision, I would tell them they must let me make my own compilation. I would pick my favorites from every album, and it would be much different from A-sides. thank you for your time *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* IF THIS ISN'T MAKING SENSE IT DOESN'T MAKE IT LIES ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:57:58 EST From: Niki Freer Subject: Re: But why? Seth why? In a message dated 11/9/98 2:50:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, BDMOTRFING@AOL.COM writes: > 1. It was the first Soundgarden album I heard. Soundgarden, like a fine wine, > > grow better with age. So therefore Soundgarden, in my eyes could never > record > an album that would taste as sweet. This is also the reason that Outshined > still remains the penultimate Soundgarden song, for me. hmmmmm...wouldn't that mean that Down on the Upside would be their finest, if they grow better with age? mindriot -sorry, couldn't resist. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:38:43 EST From: Matt Hammons Subject: Re: B-Sides singles I would hope to God that Karaoke became a single, in the hopes that someone out there might actually GET it. get it? Matt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:40:42 PST From: Arden SunGod Subject: A clerification? Okay, lets all beat the dead horse! *whoohoo!* I think I can clarify this ToTD thing without further stupidity. I can see where both sides are coming from, and here's what I can gather from it personally. Of *course* Temple didn't make the list. If you take a look at the poplation at large, ToTD was a nothing album. It didn't effect lives like SU did. How many people are there on this very list because Temple got them into Soundgarden and Pearl Jam? And now lets take a nose count of us Superunkown Babies. Now how many people here would have straight out bought Temple having never been affected by Soundgarden. There aren't many people *I* know who personally own the album because they heard Hunger Strike or Say Hello 2 Heaven and went, "wow, I want this album." I know people who heard Soundgarden and Pearl Jam and then heard Temple and went, "Damn, if Soundgarden and Pearl Jam are as good as they are, Temple cant be half bad, and I like what I've heard!" ...now I'm sure those who aren't as easily catagorized or those who seek to prove me wrong will speak up. It's a generalization! *BUT* I also understand why we all seem to want to put it on there. To us who cherish this album so, we are an elite group. There are not many people out there outside of our Soundgarden Community (And the Pearl Jam one) who are so completely into this. If *I* got to put the list on there Temple would be **WAY** up there, *but*, we didn't. Temple didn't have the impact on society as a whole that it should have. There's my 2 cents. Keep the change. -Arden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:51:35 PST From: The Cat Subject: Re: hype ------------------ Rachel Potter wrote: Friday 8:00 am SUND Hype I've never heard of that network... but maybe some of you can catch it. -rachel ------------------ That would be the Sundance Network, all they show are independant films. Check your local cable listings. /\ /\ 'o' -The Cat ==================== The Ask the Cat page: http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/8176/ ==================== Don't listen to the evil message below..... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:09:15 PST From: The Cat Subject: This lack of respect.... ============== Dave George-Cosh writes: OK..I'm starting to get pissed off here...not only do you not care for other people's opinions, but you bash them at the same time. I get the picture that you're just a sad little man who just wants attention. You have abolutely no right to put down a person'sideas if it doesn't agree with your own. ============== Damn, someone beat me to the punch =). I'm glad somebody else sees what's going on here. It's something I've noticed for a long time. This Lance Huber doesn't respect other's opinions, and whenever they disagree with his own, he resorts to name-calling. How mature, eh? ============== Mike Liacone replies: how can you talk about bashing someone when you call him "a sad little man, who wants attention"???? hes just trying to voice his opinion as is everyone else. Inri has responded to me saying that "he and a lot of other people diasgree. simple enough" now talk about lack of respect for one's opinion. part of having an open mind, is accepting that some people are closed minded, by choice. so just let them have at it, and stop trying to be the voice of reason, cuz its just gonna backfire. ============== Mike, you're missing the point. Lance is voicing his opinion, and anyone who disagrees is below him in his little hiearchy ladder. Example? Look at this little gem: "Ahhhh how sweet it is to see the opinions of the un-enlightened, theignorant, the uninformed, the misled and the uneducated. It's nice to know the lesser minded people are indeed out there and polluting the list." Awaiting the flood of flames that will follow from Lance, /\ /\ 'o' -The Cat ==================== The Ask the Cat page: http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/8176/ ==================== ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:22:23 -0800 From: William Flanders Subject: Re: A clerification? >*BUT* I also understand why we all seem to want to put it on there. To >us who cherish this album so, we are an elite group. There are not many >people out there outside of our Soundgarden Community (And the Pearl Jam >one) who are so completely into this. If *I* got to put the list on >there Temple would be **WAY** up there, *but*, we didn't. Temple didn't >have the impact on society as a whole that it should have. >-Arden I wouldn't honestly expect anyone to list TOTD as a top 100 best album of the decade. However, I disagree that it didn't meet some important criteria. Influence on society is simply marketing, let's admit it. Just look at Billboard, and you'll see how few popular musicians can even be taken seriously. The influence that's of critical importance is influence upon people who are largely immune to this sheepish effect -- musicians. And listening to Mother Love Bone, then Temple, then Pearl Jam... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. I think, in particular, the song "Hunger Strike" was an originality responsible for a lot of the mid-90s alternative sound. Still, my earlier comment was a joke, I don't think that even Chris would consider Temple the greatest album of the century. To me, the album is a showcase of Chris' raw songwriting ability, but not a masterpiece. -Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:57:45 -0600 From: tonerkin Subject: Where were you 11-9-96??? To all of you who were standing outside the Aragon 2 years ago tonight(in total rapture) have sweet Soundgarden dreams! I know I will!!! toni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:24:40 -0500 From: Michelle Subject: Re: A clerification? *Sigh* OK. I use all of my willpower to avoid becoming involved in these arguments when they slither their way onto the list. (Unfortuneately a rather frequent occurence the last couple of months.) But apparently, I'm not strong enough. So here's my .02 Regarding the top 100 list. Like many of you (I think) I have not seen the list. And I don't think it would make any difference if I did. If the people who composed the list had based upon their personal opinions, it would have no value to me. And if they had composed it based upon worthy and fair criteria, I still wouldn't care. Now I believe that music that has a broad impact on society (positive or negative) is important. And if it's positive, it's valuable. However, I admit. I am selfish. My opinions and the impact music has on me personally is ultimately the only thing that matters to me. So I see not point in arguing about whether ToTD is great or not. And now I will say that ToTD is very valuable to me, personally. When I had purchased the album, I was emerging from a musical black hole. (It was a black period of my life that I prefer not to remember.) I agree with Arden that ToTD probably did not influence many people to get into SG or PJ. However, when I bought the album, I was not *into* SG or PJ. I had their albums. But I did not really *hear* them until a little later. And when I did really hear them, I heard SG, PJ and ToTD all around the same time. And I appreciated them all for their own unique individual qualities. I was not aware of the connection between the bands. (I wasn't into learning bands at the time.) ToTD is also valuable to me because of the reasons that Lance had stated. The music is a beautiful tribute. When I first heard ToTD, I did not know who Andrew was. But later, it made me think of what a beautiful person he must have been to inspire people to create this album for him. It makes my heart ache to listen to it. ToTD also reminds me of the diverse talents of Chris. It's a different style from SG. Yet, "Like Suicide" can move me as much as "Say Hello 2 Heaven". And then he can create songs like "Big Dumb Sex" and "JCP" that invoke totally different emotions...be it humor, righteousness, or whatever. In short, I appreciate ToTD for the music itself, and because it makes me appreciate Chris' talents even more. And that is also why I value the side projects of the ALL of the SG boys. (I'll spare you from going into each of those as well!) So who cares what's on the top 100. It won't change how the music affects me! If you've made it this far, thanks for bearing with me through my long post. I hope that someone out there understands my point. And even more importantly, I hope that someone understands the way I feel about SG and ToTD because they feel that way to. (Damn it feels good!) ~Michelle < -- That's with two "L"s. No matter where I go, there's always another Michelle (Michele) around to rob me of my individuality! jk :-) ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 9 Nov 1998 to 10 Nov 1998 ***********************************************