SOMMS Digest - 31 Jul 1998 to 1 Aug 1998 [ 30KB. ] [ Unable to print this part. ] There are 21 messages totalling 801 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. A public apology & Re: A bit of stupidness... (2) 2. Since when is grammar important? I'll tell ya! :) (4) 3. He doesn't dangle from the Seraphim (3) 4. Just to clear something up (3) 5. kiss da stone.... 6. (3) 7. Just to clear something up one last time... (2) 8. The Big WEINER...Uhh ..I mean WINNER!!! 9. ! A Soundgarden related post...... 10. New Lenny Kravits song... To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:34:47 PDT From: The Cat Subject: A public apology & Re: A bit of stupidness... On the advice of a good friend (you know who you are, Dragolin :)) I've decided to make a public apology. First off, I apologize to Star Pancake, who really didn't deserve that flame I throw at her. I don't know WHY in the hell I ever wrote it. Nothing in it was even close to being true. Second, I would like to apologize to Matt, the one who unsubbed himself from the list, because I was part of the reason he did so. And last, I would like to apologize to anyone whom did not take any part in the flames against me, and who had to 'wear out their delete key' :). Hopefully, you won't see anymore flaming wars in the future. To all the others who don't apply to the above, you can go straight to hell....kidding. Just please don't let it happen again. B L wrote: >>Barbara wrote: >>I guess you are too young to realize that posts like this contribute to >>the pollution of the list. >I guess you are too narrow-minded to consider that young doesn't >equal stupid. I agreed with the majority of your post, but I find this >comment unnecesary and immature. Uh-oh. Careful there. You might start another flame war, which you people loathe (what I've been hearing in 85% of today's digest....ah well...). >4. I've been listening to DOTU for the first time in a very long while, >and >has anyone else noticed that at the end of Pretty Noose, that it starts >again? >It's really quiet, but it really does.... if you listen close you can hear it. I don't really hear it....maybe I just have shitty headphones :P. Do explain more.... But somehow that reminds me of something, that the ending of Nothing to Say sounds an awful lot like the beginning of Jesus Christ Pose. /\ /\ 'o' -The Cat http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/8176/ ICQ UIN: 2497880 Ignore what is below this line.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:37:50 EDT From: Mike Smith Subject: Re: A public apology & Re: A bit of stupidness... does anyone remember the last piece of sg related news on this list? seems like the last news i heard was something about a soundgarden break up. can anyone help? "like sands through the hourglass, so are the somms postings" mike. "trying though i know its wrong" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:52:00 PDT From: The Koggle Subject: Since when is grammar important? I'll tell ya! :) Hello All! :) This is a mailing list on the internet. A 'place' where communication is everything. We can't listen to songs together and we can't rock out together. All we can do is talk about Soundgarden and Soundgarden related things. This is why when someone says: >>...Since when is grammar important to a Soundgarden fan? ..I am urged to reply to it. Please take this as an opinion of mine, and with an open mind. It may seem like a small and unimportant issue to some of you, but it matters to me and I would like to let my views on it known. It is Soundgarden related and directly SOMMS related. Grammar may not be important to Soundgarden fans. Grammar may not be important to any fan of any band. But when it comes to discussion and communication about something, such as a mailing list and emails, grammar is a major key to satisfaction. Ask yourself WHY you are on a mailing list? Why do you use this form of information collection instead of reading up on them (either with sources online or from books) or talking with a friend/professional who knows things about them? Ultimately, I think your answer would be attributed to the range of opinions and ideas of people on a mailing list, as well as the wealth of information found here. That makes me come back to the phrase "Since when is grammar important to Soundgarden fans?" and laugh.. Because not only in this situation is it important, it is essential; If you can't express an opinion or give information clearly, there are definitely going to be problems.. misunderstandings, confusions.. both of which have the ability to cause arguments and flames. I'm not saying that people who capitalize incorrectly or mis-spell the occasional word should be shot.. I'm suggesting that we all make a conscious effort to be clear about our opinions and intentions. If you're on the list to chitchat about miscellaneous things that happened in your day, don't be surprised that this will be frowned upon. You may be having a great time doing so, but it hinders the success of the list. Yes, SOMMSters are people with feelings, and heaps of us exchange private emails and are friends, but the list has a purpose and when a post is found to have no meaning, no information or no opinion, it defeats that purpose. Anyway, I know that some of you might think this topic to be one of those 'useless' posts, but I feel that this is of importance to the list.. maybe this might help some of you understand why you've been treated the way you have. There are invisible rules here that might seem strict, but if you'll just go visit the newsgroup (what is it? alt.music.soundgarden? i forget), you'll see what could happen if everyone 'loosened up'. Also to Tiffany; brilliant interp! I think you would have gotten a great mark for that.. I am stuck on one part though. You mention the ambiguity of 'dangle' and as far as I know, there is only one definition; to hang from something.. What is the other? something about electricity? Take care everyone & thanks for listening to me, Koggs ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:28:13 -0700 From: Tiffany Saint Subject: He doesn't dangle from the Seraphim On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, The Koggle wrote: > I am stuck on one part though. You mention the ambiguity > of 'dangle' and as far as I know, there is only one definition; to hang > from something.. What is the other? something about electricity? Sorry. I didn't fully develop that idea. I was thinking that the subject of the song could be dangling like a puppet from the power lines. The person pulling the strings goes unidentified; presumably one or more powerful persons are pulling the strings. It's unclear if the subject of the song is dangling at the end of puppet strings, or is hanging on to them and manipulating them to his or her own ends. I belive that since it works both ways in real life, the ambiguity is appropriate. Tiffany aka Vampyre Cat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:17:54 EDT From: Matt Hammons Subject: Re: Since when is grammar important? I'll tell ya! :) << ..Since when is grammar important to a Soundgarden fan? >> All I'm gonna say is that anyone who jumps on peoples' cases over a stupid typo, is SEVERELY opening themselves up for the next time that they ACCIDENTALLY hit the wrong key. Not that I'm condoning any retribution or ha ha I told you so's, just a fact. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:15:10 -0700 From: "Barbara L. Strong" Subject: Just to clear something up This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E8B716C7CB9DDAF04BB6B10F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I guess you are too narrow-minded to consider that young doesn't equal stupid I hope the comment that I made that offended B L didn't offend any other "young" list members. I certainly don't consider young to be synonomous with stupid, and I was in no way implying that Ayesha is stupid. She's got an attitude and hasn't yet learned that personally attacking someone with, "Hey bitch don't fucking mess with me... ho bitch... dumb ass skank" is not the way to make a point and have it taken seriously. And I hope everyone else on the list (regardless of age) will keep that in mind. That's why I forwarded the message to the list as well. And yes, I do understand that age is relative. Barbara --------------E8B716C7CB9DDAF04BB6B10F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <35C1EACE.6C6AB698@flash.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:03:26 -0700 From: "Barbara L. Strong" Organization: Critical Path Software Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Solely@AOL.COM Subject: Re: A bit of stupidness BUT Soundgarden-related References: <199807310559.AAA05384@centurion.flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I guess you are too narrow-minded to consider that young doesn't equal stupid. > I agreed with the majority of your post, but I find this comment unnecesary > and immature. I've never considered myself to be narrow-minded, and I certainly don't consider young to be synonomous with stupid. And I was in no way implying that Ayesha was stupid, merely young. She's young with an attitude and hasn't yet learned that telling someone "Hey bitch don't fucking mess with me... ho bitch... dumb ass skank" is not the way to make a point and have it taken seriously. I was not trying to insult her. As a matter of fact, when I was 15 and 16, I had the same bad attitude, so I guess that is why I related the situation the way I did. I have thought about your comment, though, and will pay better attention to how I word my opinions so that they are not easily misunderstood. Barbara --------------E8B716C7CB9DDAF04BB6B10F-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:16:32 -0700 From: "Barbara L. Strong" Subject: Just to clear something up This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F3F60214654D0D3228C19C37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I guess you are too narrow-minded to consider that young doesn't equal stupid I hope the comment that I made that offended B L didn't offend any other "young" list members. I certainly don't consider young to be synonymous with stupid, and I was in no way implying that Ayesha is stupid. She's got an attitude and hasn't yet learned that personally attacking someone with, "Hey bitch don't fucking mess with me... ho bitch... dumb ass skank" is not the way to make a point and have it taken seriously. And I hope everyone else on the list (regardless of age) will keep that in mind. That's why I forwarded the message to the list as well. And yes, I do understand that age is relative. Barbara --------------F3F60214654D0D3228C19C37 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <35C1EACE.6C6AB698@flash.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:03:26 -0700 From: "Barbara L. Strong" Organization: Critical Path Software Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Solely@AOL.COM Subject: Re: A bit of stupidness BUT Soundgarden-related References: <199807310559.AAA05384@centurion.flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I guess you are too narrow-minded to consider that young doesn't equal stupid. > I agreed with the majority of your post, but I find this comment unnecesary > and immature. I've never considered myself to be narrow-minded, and I certainly don't consider young to be synonomous with stupid. And I was in no way implying that Ayesha was stupid, merely young. She's young with an attitude and hasn't yet learned that telling someone "Hey bitch don't fucking mess with me... ho bitch... dumb ass skank" is not the way to make a point and have it taken seriously. I was not trying to insult her. As a matter of fact, when I was 15 and 16, I had the same bad attitude, so I guess that is why I related the situation the way I did. I have thought about your comment, though, and will pay better attention to how I word my opinions so that they are not easily misunderstood. Barbara --------------F3F60214654D0D3228C19C37-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:16:29 -0500 From: Rvn Encarnacion Subject: kiss da stone.... hi, da site is at http://www.kissthestone.com ....ye can just do a search for soundgardeb...btw, they don't accept international mail orders anymore....but i hev 'blow up da outside'....it's definitely worth what they are asking for....plus ye get some drunk girl singing along with chris...doing black hole sun...*s _____________________________________________ Get your free personalized email address at http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:29:25 -0400 From: Brandon Baker Subject: what is Rocket From The Crypt? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:35:55 -0700 From: Andrew Snodgrass Subject: Brandon Baker wrote: > > what is Rocket From The Crypt? Rocket From The Crypt is a band from San Diego, CA. They are on the Interscope label and they kick ass. They opened for SG on their last tour. You might all remember them as the group with the guy dancing around stage the entire set. I definitely think you should check 'em out. Their albums Circa: Now, and RFTC are great albums. They are on tour now so go check 'em out if they are coming to your wonderful town. If you want any more info n them just drop me a line. LATER!!! -- -AS mailto:asnod@home.com http://members.home.net/asnod |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, we are the greatest RFTC" | | | | -Speedo, Rocket From The Crypt | | | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:58:03 PDT From: The Koggle Subject: Re: He doesn't dangle from the Seraphim >Sorry. I didn't fully develop that idea. No problem. :) > I was thinking that the >subject of the song could be dangling like a puppet from the power >lines. The person pulling the strings goes unidentified; presumably >one or more powerful persons are pulling the strings. >It's unclear if the subject of the song is dangling at the end of >puppet strings, or is hanging on to them and manipulating them to >his or her own ends. I'm not sure if I follow your puppet theory on this, even though I understand where you're coming from. To me it sounds purely what it appears at first; hanging down from the power lines as a form of self-torture. Then again if you were really wanting to delve deep, you could interpret the whole idea of Power (not just power lines) as the controlling of his actions, by him or someone else, as you mentioned. I guess there's no real answer to this kind of thing. It is a weird circumstance to interpret. To me, there is no reason why anyone would WANT to hang from power lines in order to win. When I originally tried to interpret this song, I took it to mean that the character was taking over the roles of everyone in every walk of life all in his attempts to 'live'; be it the opposite of Robin Hood, a martyr, a dirty old man, a liar... in this case, a martyr (sp?). If you follow my theory on this, it is easy to understand that it isn't about the character being a puppet of any sort, because he is totally in control of his actions. Hope that made sense.. You know how I dig interps! Kogg ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:15:37 EDT From: Nick Boos Subject: Re: Just to clear something up In a message dated 7/31/98 9:22:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cpsc@FLASH.NET writes: << And yes, I do understand that age is relative. >> Hey. This is not true by far on SOMMS. I think that Barb can back me up on this one too, cause when we all met at SOMMSfest I was at least 7 years younger than everybody else and it had nothing to do with anything, just meant I couldnt drink with them. I think that it is different for everybody and if they want to piss the list off, let them, and we will flame the hell out of them like we always do. So its all relitave. Thanks. -Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:53:15 PDT From: Soren Franson Subject: Re: Since when is grammar important? I'll tell ya! :) At 12:17 PM 7/31/98 EDT, Nothng2Say@AOL.COM wrote: ><< ..Since when is grammar important to a Soundgarden fan? >> > >All I'm gonna say is that anyone who jumps on peoples' cases over a stupid >typo, is SEVERELY opening themselves up for the next time that they >ACCIDENTALLY hit the wrong key. Not that I'm condoning any retribution or ha >ha I told you so's, just a fact. Well, I think it's important to realise that improper GRAMMAR can really screw things up. If you're trying to make a point but the grammar is crappy then you're VERY prone to being misunderstood, with a resulting flamewar or whatever. But I do agree that one has to be a little bit forgiving after all. Some of the people on this list seem to take everything posted as personal criticism. So if you are posting something which you think might be misinterpeted try to make sure that your language is as clear and to the point as possible, for your own sake. (Yeah, I took Communication Skills in college...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:58:33 PDT From: kelly hendricks Subject: Sorry but I needed to let Kelly Burnett know that I got her money and will be sending the *SOUNDGARDEN* (there's the SG part of my post) book to her tomorrow! Take care and be sweet!! Stay Cool, Kelly (c: Funny of the day: ~Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:23:15 -0700 From: "Barbara L. Strong" Subject: Re: Just to clear something up one last time... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0C44F0E044D93D77973B459C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess I am just going to shut up after this because I keep screwing up what I am trying to say. << And yes, I do understand that age is relative. >> I was using the word age in place of "maturity", which *is* relative to age, experience, having an open mind and willingness to learn life's little lessons. I do not want to start a thread on age vs. maturity blah blah blah, I just realized after B L's post that I might have put off some of our younger list members and I didn't intend to do that and wanted a chance to clarify what I meant. End of discussion. Barb p.s. I had a great time in Seattle with Nick, Arden and pUnKy, who are all at least 7 years younger than me. p.s.2. Did I mention that I saw Chris Cornell (through binoculars) at the PJ show backstage lighting a cigarette? (don't argue with me, Michelle or Nick... It waaaaas tooooo hiiiiiiim!!!!) - just to get on to something more SG related. Hootchies can email me privately for details... --------------0C44F0E044D93D77973B459C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <35C216E1.B60167C5@flash.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:11:29 -0700 From: "Barbara L. Strong" Organization: Critical Path Software Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SubPop77@aol.com Subject: Re: Just to clear something up References: <9a078ff9.35c209ca@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You know what, I again kinda misworded that phrase. I was using the word age in place of "maturity", which is relative to age, experience, and having an open mind. But I do agree with you that we had a great time in Seattle and the though we razzed you a little about your age, liked you just the same as if you are 15 or 25. (FYI - William is 12 years older than me!) Barb SubPop77@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/31/98 9:22:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cpsc@FLASH.NET > writes: > > << And yes, I do understand that > age is relative. >> > > Hey. This is not true by far on SOMMS. I think that Barb can back me up on > this one too, cause when we all met at SOMMSfest I was at least 7 years > younger than everybody else and it had nothing to do with anything, just meant > I couldnt drink with them. I think that it is different for everybody and if > they want to piss the list off, let them, and we will flame the hell out of > them like we always do. So its all relitave. Thanks. > > -Nick --------------0C44F0E044D93D77973B459C-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:55:19 -0500 From: Christi Lopez Subject: The Big WEINER...Uhh ..I mean WINNER!!! Okay.... (((((((((((((....give me a drum roll please.)))))))))))) And the lucky winner of the 'Badmotorfinger/Somms' CD as picked by my small trusty parrot, ChickenHawk is: "LKSmith01@aol.com" Congrats LKSmith!!!!! P.S. Okay...Please don't ever accuse 'ChickenHawk' of cheating...cause he's true blue. Errrrr...actually true green! ( but hey...he really *does* have a little bit of blue on his tail feathers! *smirk* ..since he'd just as well love to bite the shit out of ya! (a.k.a "Winged Spawn of Satan") To recieve your Badmotorfinger/Somms CD...please read carefully and do the following: Email my good pal at: Beavis@io.com And include your mailing address to where you want your Badmotorfinger/Somms disk sent to. IT'S THAT SIMPLE! Thanx for playing!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:02:10 -0500 From: Christi Lopez Subject: Re: Just to clear something up one last time... On 07/31/98 12:23:15 you wrote: >p.s.2. Did I mention that I saw Chris Cornell (through binoculars) at >the PJ show backstage lighting a cigarette? (don't argue with me, >Michelle or Nick... It waaaaas tooooo hiiiiiiim!!!!) - > Chris Cornell *WAS* there, at the second PJ show. He flew in from L.A (took time out from recording his album) that day to see the show. Then he flew back to L.A the next evening. This was confirmed by sources at Silver Management. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:35:45 -0500 From: tonerkin Subject: Re: Since when is grammar important? I'll tell ya! :) At 11:53 AM 7/31/98 PDT, Soren Franson wrote: >><< ..Since when is grammar important to a Soundgarden fan? >> >> > >Well, I think it's important to realise that improper GRAMMAR can really >screw things up. If you're trying to make a point but the grammar is crappy >then you're VERY prone to being misunderstood, with a resulting flamewar or >whatever. I also think people need to remember that not everyone on this list has English for a first language!!! When you are reading some of the slang and intentionally misspelled word and you are trying to translate it to your native language and understand it....must be a nightmare! Hell, some of the post we get I have a hard time deciphering myself!! As far as the age thing....we have a nice age span on this list and everyone for the most part has gotten along for the past years(most times that is) At the Chicago sommsfest we ranged in age from 16 to almost 50(I'll give you a break dear!) and we all managed to talk and have a good time. There are just as many immature 30 year olds and wise teens here as well as the other way around! toni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:31:47 PDT From: The Cat Subject: ! A Soundgarden related post...... Amazing the things that end out related on people's posts. One person mentions a Susan Silver writing a screenplay produced or directed by Aaron Spelling, and a day later someone mentions seeing a Louder than Love poster on that godawful Beverly Hills 90210. To my point, I have something that relates to the Lenny Kravitz thing. In the most recent episode of MTV's Fanatic some fan meets Lenny. The fan brought his guitar, which had Temple of the Dog written on it (looked exactly like how it was written on the album, in terms of lettering). Lenny Kravitz signed the fan's guitar, and even played for a little bit. This is sort of a senseless post, but it got me thinking about what I would do if I saw a former member of Soundgarden in public. I'd probably just look at them so I know who they are, but not say anything, at the risk of sounding stupid. Anyway, back to your regulary scheduled programming.... /\ /\ 'o' -The Cat http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/8176/ ICQ UIN: 2497880 Please excuse the Hotmail blurb below :P.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:46:02 -0700 From: Tiffany Saint Subject: Re: He doesn't dangle from the Seraphim On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, The Koggle wrote: > To me, there is no reason why anyone would > WANT to hang from power lines in order to win. I really get the sense that the person regrets grabbing for the power lines. I agree with you. > When I originally tried > to interpret this song, I took it to mean that the character was taking > over the roles of everyone in every walk of life all in his attempts to > 'live'; be it the opposite of Robin Hood, a martyr, a dirty old man, a > liar... in this case, a martyr (sp?). If you follow my theory on this, > it is easy to understand that it isn't about the character being a > puppet of any sort, because he is totally in control of his actions. Yeah, I think he or she is totally in control. I also think that they don't like how things are turning out, especially at that point in the song. At the same time, there is something to be said for the notion that you can't use power without power using you. You become part of the circuit, so to speak. It's also a point I'm still a little muddy on. I think there's more there that I'm not seeing. It may be something personal to the author. who knows? Tiffany Vampyre Cat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:53:40 -0700 From: John DiPanfilo Subject: Re: New Lenny Kravits song... This is a lte respnse so sorry! I was an vacation! I thought I was going nuts but I guess it wasn't just me! My non Soundgarden friend Matt also told me the same thing saying "that sounds a hell of a lot like that one Soundgarden song," I even picked up my guitar when the song came on the radio and played along. I could do this because the 2 songs vary only slightly. Lenny Kravits song just tacets a couple chords that are in "Pretty Noose I figured I would reply to this just to let you know that you know that you hit the nail on the head. -John ---Andrew Snodgrass wrote: > > I don't know if someone has already brought this up or not but has > anyone else noticed it sounds A LOT like Pretty Noose? I mean when I > first heard it I thought it was. Just wanted to find out if it was only > my bro and I who think it sounds the same. > > > -- > -AS > mailto:asnod@home.com > http://members.home.net/asnod > > |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| > | | > | "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, we are the greatest RFTC" | > | | > | -Speedo, Rocket From The Crypt | > | | > |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 31 Jul 1998 to 1 Aug 1998 ***********************************************