Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 02:00:02 -0500 Subject: SOMMS Digest - 1 Apr 1998 to 2 Apr 1998 There are 20 messages totalling 765 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. and we float on shapeless oceans... 2. some sg for sale 3. "Tool flamer" 4. Interpretations (fwd) 5. Anything and everything! (2) 6. My broken gift..... (4) 7. Dog imagery? (2) 8. Blind Dogs Interpretation 9. April Fool's Day and Soundgarden 10. Re[2]: My broken gift..... 11. Birth Ritual 12. A Different Look at Birth Ritual (2) 13. "tears of the feeble, hands of the slaves.." (2) To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:31:43 +1000 From: justin nicholls Subject: and we float on shapeless oceans... On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, The Koggle wrote: > check out the packaging and design of DOTU.. it's all with that same > movie theme.. the cover is them standing on a stage w/ lights, the back > cover is of a playbill thing.. the book witht the lyrics has rolls of > so what does this have to do with the album? not sure if this has been mentioned, but chris (as spokesperson for the band) has noted in at least two interviews that soundgarden's music was greatly influenced and inspired by movies and images, as opposed to being inspired by other people's music. perhaps the band's interest in these things is reflected in dotu's packaging. fyi, new faq one week from now. new sotw two weeks from now. new sotm soon after that. justin ------------- q: is it easy kicking so much ass? a: yes, because there is so much ass to be kicked out there. -matt cameron, 1998. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:41:12 -0600 From: ebg Subject: some sg for sale Ok people, due to an upcoming change in my marital status, I need to divest myself of a lot of different things, including much of my SG collection. Prices generally reflect what I paid for it (and sometimes I paid too much). Preference given to those who want multiple items. If you need more information about any of this stuff I suggest you take a look at the excellent discography compiled by Steven Russell. Find it at http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~swr/sg1.html. Rusty Cage cd single w/ SG and Johnny Cash versions $6 Deep Six cd compilation (94 release) w/ SG's Heretic, Tears to Forget and All Your Lies $8 Burden in My Hand cd single w/ Karaoke, Bleed Together and Birth Ritual Demo $10 Foreshocks compilation $25 Born to Choose cd w/ HIV Baby $10 Butow/Dusty (Moby mix) cd single $7 My Wave/Spoonman remix/Birth Ritual (demo)/My Wave live cd single $6 My Wave cd single $4 Down on the Upside cd $8 Pretty Noose/Applebite/An Unkind/interview cd single w/ poster $10 Spoonman/Cold Bitch cd single $4 Songs from the Superunknown cd $5 Seattle Scruffs cd boot. 2 cuts from SG, 6 from MLB and 5 from AIC. Audio quality on the SG cuts is poor. $15 Loudest Love Japanese import cd. $25 BMF/SOMMS cd $25 Hater cd $5 Who do I kill (Hater) cd single $4 Dry as a Bone/Rehab Doll (Green River) cd $10 Burden in my hand 7" white vinyl single b/Karaoke $10 Pretty Noose 7" red vinyl single b/Jerry Garcia's Finger $10 Spoonman 7" picture disc b/Fresh Tendrils $10 Loud Love 7" w/Big Dumb Sex, Get on the Snake and Fresh Deadly Roses $10 Flower 10" red vinyl w/ Head Injury and Toy Box. A few scratches. $20 Flower 12 black vinyl w/ same as above. Still sealed. $10 Rusty Cage vinyl w/ Touch Me and Show Me...and poster $15 DotU vinyl $10 Dotu clear vinyl $20 UltraMega Ok vinyl $8 Screaming Life black vinyl $20 Louder Than Love green vinyl $75 Jesus Christ Pose 12" w/Stray Cat Blues, Into the Void (Sealth) and Somewhere...and posterbag - whatever that is. Still sealed. $20 Toilet Seat BMF cd. #120 (out of 1000) $75 Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:35:54 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: "Tool flamer" > Stop talking about TOOL. I'm so sick of hearing about this band. Them and yep I will since this is a SG list, but I just encouraged people who wondered about the band or didn't know it (Tool seems pretty famous in US but is more "underground" in other places... like France...), and was intented for open minded people. You don't seem open minded, especially today and/or about Tool :) Anyway... > their overblown arrangments, they're just prog-rock. Their lyrics are nowhere Maybe you don't like the band, but the reason I adressed this to this list is the similarity between Tool and SG for me, odd rythms and stranges "scales" from... yes, from black sab or King crimson it seems. If you are addicted to the subtleties of SG and if you come across the T band, you might be addicted as well... I could have told you about Rollins Band... The point is I am not going to discuss their lyrics in depth here or about maynard's tatoos, so don't get carried away, man (wow, you're reaaaaaaaly hoosstile, maan - Big ugly mouth) > near as deep. Ooooh Anima is about California sinking into the ocean, wow Sarcasm. And is she's a politician just about a fucked up girl who fought with Kim??? :) The One thing on which everybody seems to agree is that interpretation is sthing personnal, right?? If you can't see further than your nose, or just don't want to see farther, what's the point in this message? This was a one shot, but I wonder what went through your mind : you blame me for talking about Tool, and look what your message is about?!? No point in showing testosterone here, Mr (Ms, Mss??) touchy. PIF - the guy who likes the song about California sinking ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:42:07 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Re: Interpretations (fwd) > Very good. This documentation may contribute to the interpretation. > Geoff > > Guillaume PETETIN wrote: > > > this is documentation, not interpretation... > > > > PIF > yep I was in a hurry when I posted this. So I agree, as long as it is not reduced to the "official bad approved" iterpretation :) as it seems to me a lot of bands are intelligent enough to let you handle your own key to their songs... So this wasn't an aggressive message everybody, just a quick one... PIF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:03:35 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Re: Anything and everything! > > I thought it was about them looking for a new bass player after Hiro > left. "I light a cigarette before the execution..." is that he lights up > before telling the guy that he did not make the cut (not make it into > the band). Just my thoughts. > > -- > -AS > mailto:asnod@home.com > http://www.csusm.edu/public/guests/asnod/ > nice one too... I've been "auditionning" a few times, and each one (each formal one, rather) was quite "failed" for one reason or another, so, con necting with my feeling about this song, auditions are like executions/ death/births... PIF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:00:57 -0800 From: John Scully Subject: My broken gift..... Hey all, Seems about a million years since I last wrote to this list. Oh well. But does anyone think that on the end of 'Like Suicide', it sounds like chris is sayin, "Just like suicise"? I swear it does. This may be pretty laim, but it's been buggin me. Dave :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:00:49 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Anything and everything! About Birth ritual... When I saw the title I thought it would be a quiet nice song... Like seasons... When I listened to it it was a little surprise... And then recently I saw the lyrics (on sgi) adn it was quite clear. This is just a basic feeling I'm describing, not an exhaustive interpretation I thought it was a song about birth, but the lyrics and music seem pretty much about death... Yes, this is about birth, about the passage to life, the death of the foetus who becomes the newborn. Something like the trauma of birth connecting with the fear and supposed trauma of death... Cycle of life. Who's lighting a cigarette before the execution? A baby of course :) the strong symbol of "the last cigarette before the execution" is the last touch of erathly things before an announced death... (like in the end of Mr Verdoux, one of chaplin's best movies if not the best IMHO). What would you feel if you were to be born again, but not knowing what awaits you?? I guess you got the idea... PIF - I hate the feeling you get when you're dead :) PS : I liked your interpretation, even if I don't know where the hell you got it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:15:43 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: My broken gift..... > Hey all, Hi, I'll send you my last brick > Seems about a million years since I last wrote to this list. Oh well. > > But does anyone think that on the end of 'Like Suicide', it sounds like > chris is sayin, "Just like suicise"? I swear it does. He's holding a note for long, and resolving it very smoothly, try to pronounc"e a "d" in that situation, you might come up with the sound that bothers you! PIF > > This may be pretty laim, but it's been buggin me. > > Dave :-) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:23:18 -0500 From: Gabrielle Gerbino Subject: Dog imagery? Does anyone have any thoughts on Chris's recurring dog imagery? Is this a metaphor, or is it just because he's had dogs his whole life and loves them? I can't decide . . . any thoughts? Gabrielle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:28:53 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: Re: Blind Dogs Interpretation >>"Run Away, now its Halloween" >>Here's my take - "you superstitious idiots. >>To me, this is another look at superstition, witch-hunting and the like. Now that you point out superstition, I agree. The whole beginning is insulting religions as a whole saying that they are superstitious in the sense that religions try to keep people away from evil. It is saying that this is just as superstitious as pagans hiding from evil spirits on Halloween. By the way, just because I interpret a song in one way does not mean that I share any of the views of the interpretation. I am simply interpreting what I hear. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Flanders To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 12:26 AM Subject: Re: Blind Dogs Interpretation >WARNING: THIS MESSAGE WILL OFFEND PEOPLE > >This is one interpretation that basically can't be wrong. Still... it's >interesting to discuss it. I liked your "Burden in my Hand" = bottle of >whiskey interpretation... it makes more sense than the others... and if I >had thought of that, I would have written such an interpretation...though >I'm still stuck on the unappeable guilt idea given the tone of the song. >Same thing with the mirrors/razors... just pointing out what would probably >be the meaning based on common uses of terms seems really valuable. > >>I think that Blind Dogs is one of the most controversial songs Soundgarden >>has ever written because it specically insults the followers of religions in >>general and specically the followers of Christianity. It starts out with an >>ecouragement to break free from established religions and start thinking for >>about God or life in general on your own. > >Maybe I just have a warped point of view, but questioning Christianity >doesn't seem very controversial and hasn't since Nietszche... Yeah. I >agree... this is a denigration of believing in Christianity due to popular >opinion. > >>"Run Away, now its Halloween" >>This means to escape from just following the religion that you were brought >>up to believe. Halloween was a pagan holiday in which pagans, who didn't >>believe in God, used to where masks to scare spirits away. Buy running away >>from the religion, you will be considered a pagan by that religion. > >Here's my take - "you superstitious idiots." > >>"Shave your head and burn your sheets" >>Shaving your head would make you look different. By going away from the >>religion and thinking from you own your own you will be different from the >>others. Sleep is a monotonous part of everyone's life-almost all people do >>it every single day. Burning your sheets symbolizes breaking the monotony >>of following the religion that you were brought up to follow like most >>people do in society. > >Here is my take - "go ahead with your absurd, pointless rituals" > >>"Evil right next door. What do Blind Dog's believe. I don't want to know" >>These lyrics take the point of view of one who is in the religion. This is >>a close-minded view about people that are not in their religion. These >>people in the religion don't want to bother with learning about any other >>religion because they stubbornly think that their religion is definately the >>right one. > >To me, this is another look at superstition, witch-hunting and the like. > >>"The safe bet is on your knees, Bow your head to the Trinity, Thats what >>Blind Dogs believe, I've heard that before" >> On your knees means praying and also surrendering yourself to that >>religion. These blind followers of faith use religion not mainly as means >>to worhsip God and practice their beliefs but as insurance to go to heaven >>or whatever the religion says they will go. These blind dogs don't question >>the aspects of the religion because they are just playing it safe. Thats >>what makes them Blind Dogs. Bowing your head to Trinity specifically points >>out Christianity since that is the only religion that believe in Trinity. >>However, this is probably because Christianity is the religion that Chris >>has been most exposed to and "seen before" > >That has to be the most interesting line in the song. To me, it's a >criticism of Pascal's Wager: >http://www.emich.edu/public/philosophy/dominos_other_files/Pascals_Wager.ht ml > >>"Dead on my feet when the nightmare walks" >>The fear of death is the main reason that the blind dogs follow their >>religion. If religions believed that when you die then that's it not many >>would practice that religion. Religion provides an insurance that the >>permanent death will not happen and there will be a heaven. > >I'll have to admit that I have no idea about this one... maybe the walking >nightmare is one of those halloween demons frightening the blind. > >>"I fell asleep where the freeway talks" >>Freeways are travelled by many people. The freeway symbolizes religion >>which is followed by many people. The blind dogs "fell asleep" by not >>thinking about religion for themselves and choosing to take the religion >>travelled by many people. This reminds me of the poem "A Fork in the Road" >>by Robert Frost in which the narrator has a choice between taking the >>symbolic road less traveled by or road travelled by more frequently. > >Yeah... meaning that he took one of the country roads, instead of the >freeway. Cool point. > >>"Suffering to swim and dying to sink" >>This refers to the struggle of breaking free from being a blind dog and >>thinking for your own. Swimming above the deep waters of the popular >>religion is much harder than sinking and going back to the religion without >>questioning it. Breaking from a religion or questioning it would make you a >>HETERIC, which is also another song by Soundgarden and follows a similar >>theme. > >Okay.. I'll have to part with you on that one. I think this refers to the >life of a devout Christian. Christianity teaches selfless suffering for >God or burning eternally... there are two paths in this case: suffering or >damnation. > >>"These things in the air will make you think" >>This could mean a few things. It could mean seeing how so many are blind >>dogs can make you question how so many in society just try to blend in and >>not do anything different or special. It could also mean that this song >>will make you think about relgion or society in general in a different way. > >Yeah... this line is up for grabs. Maybe just saying that this whole line >of reasoning was the result of actually thinking about these things. > >>P.S. No Bill, I am not having trouble with religion either 8^) > >No... you seem to have a good handle on it. :) > >Bill > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:32:50 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: April Fool's Day and Soundgarden Today is April Fool's Day. If you hear anyone saying that Soundgarden is getting back together or something along the lines, DO NOT BELIEVE IT:( ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:47:25 EST From: O6z6z6y Subject: Re: My broken gift..... In a message dated 98-04-01 06:07:47 EST, you write: << Hey all, Seems about a million years since I last wrote to this list. Oh well. But does anyone think that on the end of 'Like Suicide', it sounds like chris is sayin, "Just like suicise"? I swear it does. This may be pretty laim, but it's been buggin me. Dave :-) >> Ya know what bugs me (you can hear it really well on Motorvision), during "Mind Riot" when Matt is singing the backup I'd swear he's saying "...Mineee Dddriot". Just sounds odd to my ears, oh well. Is it just me? Am I hearing things that aren't there? ~^v^OzzY^v^~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:58:36 -0500 From: Gabrielle Gerbino Subject: Re[2]: My broken gift..... No, you're not imagining things. That is what Matt says, and I you watch him closely during Mind Riot, you can see him make a face at one point after backing Chris up like, "Boy, was I off key", or something like that. It's pretty funny! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: My broken gift..... Author: O6z6z6y at aot-gateway Date: 4/1/98 10:47 AM In a message dated 98-04-01 06:07:47 EST, you write: << Hey all, Seems about a million years since I last wrote to this list. Oh well. But does anyone think that on the end of 'Like Suicide', it sounds like chris is sayin, "Just like suicise"? I swear it does. This may be pretty laim, but it's been buggin me. Dave :-) >> Ya know what bugs me (you can hear it really well on Motorvision), during "Mind Riot" when Matt is singing the backup I'd swear he's saying "...Mineee Dddriot". Just sounds odd to my ears, oh well. Is it just me? Am I hearing things that aren't there? ~^v^OzzY^v^~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:43:03 -0600 From: Barbarba Strong Subject: Birth Ritual I think Arden's interp is pretty fitting. I tend to look at songs in a broader sense and then pin point certain verses to fit my life. All this discussion ml has been amazing for me to hear what you guys see and hear and feel when you listen to Soundgarden. I always felt that Birth Ritual was about something greedy and hungry tearing apart something that was new and fresh and beautiful. And that there was another element, something all knowing and strong and untouched and sorry that knows what is about to happen but gives no warning and just looks on. That is just the feeling the song left me with, but never having looked at it line by line, I was totally amazed by the *idea* that it has to do with industry and media and superstardom. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:08:14 EST From: CameronJCP Subject: Re: My broken gift..... >Ya know what bugs me (you can hear it really well on Motorvision), during >"Mind Riot" when Matt is singing the backup I'd swear he's saying "...Mineee >Dddriot". Just sounds odd to my ears, oh well. >Is it just me? Am I hearing things that aren't there? >~^v^OzzY^v^~ Hey one and all!! Scott's still flowing with thoughts :) So, of course, when he brought up Matt I had to say something.. When I heard Mind Riot on Motorvision I dug it.. it was really cool and I was excited to see/hear Matt do some singing. But you all can tell that he was singing "Miiind Driiiott!!". I was singing along and thought it was kinda... different. But he was just singing to his fullest and singing long notes, so even if it does mean he had to make it sound like the words are connected he did a great job :) Great observation! - Maria : Ya'll know who I am.. P.S. Don't worry kuz, it kinda got to my head too :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:10:57 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: A Different Look at Birth Ritual The interpretation of Birth Ritual being about stardom makes sense but I remember reading a quote in Hit Parader magazine where Chris said something like "I don't like singing songs about me. It's like this is me, your listening to my music and I am going to sing about me" . (This is by no means an exact quote. This is just out of my memory.) So, although the interpretation of Birth Ritual being about stardom is a good one and makes sense, I doubt it was what Chris had in mind when he wrote it. He wasn't that obsessed with becoming a mainstream band that he wrote a song about it. I am not too sure, but I was thinking that Birth Ritual was about being high. There is so much imagery and description, especially at the beginning. I think it kind of captures the moment of being high. I can't really go line by line because part of capturing the moment is the incoherency. A few lines that point towards this meaning are "Euphoric rush" and "I took the drug." It sort of sounds like Chirs was high when he wrote it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:16:05 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: Re: Dog imagery? > Does anyone have any thoughts on Chris's recurring dog imagery? Is > this a metaphor, or is it just because he's had dogs his whole life > and loves them? I can't decide . . . any thoughts? > > Gabrielle I think that the dog fits in to the theme of Individualism v.s. Society, a recurring theme in many Soundgarden songs. A dog usually just follows what its owner wants it to do and doesn't really think for itself. It symbolizes a person who just completely conforms to society and does try to do anything different or think for itself. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:34:08 -0600 From: Bill Flanders Subject: Re: A Different Look at Birth Ritual At 03:10 PM 4/1/98 -0600, Aladdin Hassanein wrote: > The interpretation of Birth Ritual being about stardom makes sense but >I remember reading a quote in Hit Parader magazine where Chris said >something like "I don't like singing songs about me. It's like this is me, >your listening to my music and I am going to sing about me" . (This is by no >means an exact quote. This is just out of my memory.) So, although the >interpretation of Birth Ritual being about stardom is a good one and makes >sense, I doubt it was what Chris had in mind when he wrote it. He wasn't >that obsessed with becoming a mainstream band that he wrote a song about it. > I am not too sure, but I was thinking that Birth Ritual was about being >high. There is so much imagery and description, especially at the >beginning. I think it kind of captures the moment of being high. I can't >really go line by line because part of capturing the moment is the >incoherency. A few lines that point towards this meaning are "Euphoric >rush" and "I took the drug." It sort of sounds like Chirs was high when he >wrote it. I'm not sure if the lyrics quite fit, but I've always thought the birth ritual was being born, and the death ritual was living. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:37:23 EST From: Lilricky81 Subject: "tears of the feeble, hands of the slaves.." ok then.....i feel i must voice my opinions and views as well, sorry!*!* listening to LIMO WRECK, i am reminded of chris' eloquence in songwriting... both lyrically and musically there is parallelism. ex: "two eyes, two suns, too heavenly blinds" i love how chris uses a homonym to describe how things aren't always as they seem. the person in that limo is not as inaccessible as the traditional storybook says......hey guys, i'm just brainstorming here!! and is there anyone who honestly hasn't gotten off @ that one incredible, driving, creshendo of drums and vocal before the final chorus? "....lies the wreck of you for the rest of your liffeeee!!!!" my god..i can't even describe how much that line moves me. -cats4kim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:33:59 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: Re: "tears of the feeble, hands of the slaves.." >>"two eyes, two suns, >>too heavenly blinds" i love how chris uses a homonym to describe >>how things >>aren't always as they seem. Things not always being what they seem is also the theme of Pretty Noose. There we go, another recurring Soundgarden theme. So far we have things not being what they seem, individualism v.s. society, and sex (mainly their earlier work especially Louder than Love). -----Original Message----- From: Lilricky81 To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 9:14 PM Subject: "tears of the feeble, hands of the slaves.." >ok then.....i feel i must voice my opinions and views as well, sorry!*!* > >listening to LIMO WRECK, i am reminded of chris' eloquence in songwriting... >both lyrically and musically there is parallelism. ex"two eyes, two suns, too heavenly blinds" i love how chris uses a homonym to describe how things aren't always as they seem. the person in that limo is not as inaccessible as >the traditional storybook says......hey guys, i'm just brainstorming here!! > >and is there anyone who honestly hasn't gotten off @ that one incredible, >driving, creshendo of drums and vocal before the final chorus? "....lies the >wreck of you for the rest of your liffeeee!!!!" my god..i can't even describe >how much that line moves me. > >-cats4kim > ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 1 Apr 1998 to 2 Apr 1998 **********************************************