Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:00:17 -0500 Subject: SOMMS Digest - 31 Mar 1998 to 1 Apr 1998 There are 32 messages totalling 1164 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. why movies? 2. Interpretations (2) 3. What does it all mean!?!?! (2) 4. Spoonman (7) 5. The last couple days... 6. TDITTL 7. why movies? 8. Down on the Upside Title (3) 9. THE LIVE ALBUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10. oops 11. THE LIVEALBUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! 12. My opinions 13. Anything and everything! (2) 14. the no longer sommsless one is.... 15. Blind Dogs Interpretation (2) 16. Interps... 17. rock stars 18. spring cleaning 19. KEEP IT OFF MY WAVE!!!!! (2) To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:21:43 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Re: why movies? > In a message dated 98-03-30 23:38:08 EST, you write: > > << check out the packaging and design of DOTU.. it's all with that same > movie theme.. the cover is them standing on a stage w/ lights >> > > The way I always interpreted the cover of this album was: the four guys were > standing at the wall of a parking garage looking across the street at a > burning building that they had set on fire. This cover always seemed to > startle me cause I never knew what it was suppose to mean, other album covers > by soundgarden and other bands are easy to interpret or dont have any "hidden > meaning." > > My $.02 > > -Nick Other album covers, by SG or not are not so easy to figure out for me... Badmotorfinger???? I like Kim's explanation about the title :" it should have been BadMotorScooter, but only rich kids have scooters, and everyone has fingers"... And superunknown??? Is just a photo "shopped" and represents the unknown?? well... If you like to interpret, check out TOOL : albums, photos, interviews and Lyrics (even the sentence itself, because of Maynard's peculiar rythm) should get you plenty of hadaches :) Don't forget to check out www.toolshed .down.net ... No I'm not related to anyone in Tool or in the web page, Some SG fans might be interested in this band, I'm just encouraging people to discover this huge band ( and they are still together for now ... let's cross fingers). PIF - The hype is as high as an elephant's eye ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:24:57 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Re: Interpretations > I think that this is the exact quote I was talking about. All I could remember > was that it was Chris recounting an incident between Kim and a woman. (way to > go hippocampus!) I was pretty sure it involved throwing things. Anyway, there > ya have it. Thanks Kathie. > Geoff > > Kathie and David wrote: > > > I don't know if this is what you were talking about Geoff, but I found a > > little blurb about She's a Politician in the Dec. 1991 Reflex mag (not on the > > site, I have it here). Its describing the song, which was one of the songs on > > the flexi-disc and says: this is documentation, not interpretation... PIF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 09:59:05 -0600 From: tonerkin Subject: What does it all mean!?!?! Hello all you deep thinking Sommsters, I find the threads on the meanings of songs interesting (I thought Aladdin's on BIMH was especially so) BUTT I think that songs are always going to mean different things to different people. You might interpret a lyric in one way(depending on what's going on in your life) on Wednesday.....and a different way the next month. I think the beauty of music is it speaks to us individually. FOBD struck me as a song about depression whether Chris wrote the words to mean that or not does not matter. They reminded me of the "Black Days" I had in the past. So as much as some of you are sure that Christopher Jacob :=) meant this or that.....the biggest compliment we can give him is what each of us comes away with from his songs.(or Ben, Kim's or Matt's)no matter how varied those emotions and interpretations are! And believe it or not some people just like a cool guitar riff and a good beat and don't give a rat's ass about the lyrics! Keep up those brain storms. toni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:09:26 EST From: Nothng2Say Subject: Re: What does it all mean!?!?! I do really like this thread, just a bunch of us creative minds trying to interpret our own meanings for songs, so how about this question: How much do you think Chris' intention of lyrics differs when he sings one of the other guys' songs (Somewhere, An Unkind etc.) What do you think? Matt P.S. I joined the list after DOTU just came out, so if this was discussed before forgive me. What is the order on the DOTU cover, I believe it is L to R Kim, Chris, Ben, Matt. Oh well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:43:18 EST From: Nothng2Say Subject: Spoonman How about Spoonman? I always thought it was about a guy who played the spoons for a living or something. Maybe he was like a bum, living in Seattle. And Chris met him one day. MATT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:02:44 -0600 From: Barbarba Strong Subject: The last couple days... I want to take a second and thank everybody who has posted to the list over the last couple of days. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading about all of your interpretations of these lyrics and album covers (I'm still smirking about the burning building, Nick!). Discussions like these are what keep Soundgarden new for me, I hear BIMH and TDITTL differently today than I did last week and I think we all need that to keep this passion from becoming stale. It is a very personal thing to share an interpretation of a song. It gives us all a peek into your mind and opens you up for guesses or judgement of your private life and personality, and I really appreciate what you guys have shared with the list. Barb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:09:47 -0600 From: Geoff Subject: Re: Interpretations Very good. This documentation may contribute to the interpretation. Geoff Guillaume PETETIN wrote: > this is documentation, not interpretation... > > PIF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:39:42 EST From: Muhammad Lee Subject: TDITTL Sommsters, A quick two cents, if I remember correctly TDITTL is about chris being introverted, and trying to go out and have a good time. But everytime he goes out he just can't do it, and goes home. It's in one of the articles on the web site I believe. BTW, I haven't posted to the site regularly since the summer of 96' haven't been reading the posts regularly since early 97'. I am in denial about the breakup, I didn't know about for 2 weeks after it happened. My friends were scared to tell me. Anyway I see some of the old school sommsters from the summer of 95' when this crazy thing started are still here, like geoff if it's the same dude. But where is Moon Druid, Blind Dog, Little Joe, Mayor McCheese, Caroline from Australia, Jamesetta Simpson from Virginia, etc etc etc. BTW my handle back then was Clown With Bazooka. Anyway I'm back talk to you guys later. CWB ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Save The Carrots! Save the Carrots! Let the Rabbits wear glasses! -James Maynard Keenan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:11:49 -0600 From: Geoff Subject: Re: Spoonman That is exactly what spoonman is about. I personally wouldn't call Artis a "bum" though. Geoff Nothng2Say wrote: > > How about Spoonman? I always thought it was about a guy who played the spoons > for a living or something. Maybe he was like a bum, living in Seattle. And > Chris met him one day. > > MATT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:47:01 EST From: Nothng2Say Subject: Re: Spoonman I guess I should stop with the sarcasm, It never plays well through e-mail. Matt. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:18:44 -0500 From: El Conspiraco Subject: Re: why movies? so what does this have to do with the album? [] Not a lot. I think it was out of their hands really when it came to designing the whole thing. I know that Ben took a couple photos for the album, but I don't think they were looking for a movie theme. For god sakes, their Soundgarden. They don't give a fuck about that! and look at the videos.. Burden has them looking all actorish and arty striding across a desert and comes complete with that government conspiracy looking jet at the end.. Blow up the outside world is the whole torture scene, i think i recall someone saying it was like a Clockwork Orange? Although i've only seen one of the Pretty Noose videos only once or twice i remember it as a couple in a bedroom.. maybe it's a dramatic type of thing.. or a porn or what have you heheh [] With the BIMH vid, I think the director was trying to go on that desert idea and motiff that Chris used. Of course, we could have told the director about the symbolism and shit like that, but again, they're made to look all actorish to sell CD's, not to be a hero in a Spielburg flick. BOTOW is very Clockwork Orange-like. But, I can't see the point of moving between the guys playing, and pictures showing Hitler as father. If I was in that chair, I'd be like "Cool...Soundgarden's playing...hey...who the fuck put Hitler there?" In the Pretty Noose vid, I think Frank Kozic got Chris's theme of the song down pat. Also notice the boys in the OK Hotel, and playing pool, and driving cars and stuff. Now, when I wanna see a vid, I wanna see Matt driving a nice Harley, and Ben driving a kick-ass car (Although I think he was driving a Beetle..but this is by memory..:) ) And I think that having the guys in a fucking porno is taking it a bit too extreme. I don't wanna see my idols degrading themselves like that, even if they are enjoying it. but you get what i'm on about.. the theme of Film/Movies is obviously used in the production of DOTU.. would this have anything to do with what Bill suggests? it is about different and particular aspects of emotions and emotional struggles and choices.. actors play out parts with a whole range of emotions.. were soundgarden just experimenting with that part of it? does anyone have any ideas about this? I'm not sure if it's been talked about before, sorry if it has, i think it is really relative to what we're talking about at the moment.. [] I don't think we're gonna see Soundgarden be in a movie any time soon. These guys play music, they play it well, and goddamn it! people like them! So, the idea of a movie theme is alright, but I don't think anyone is gonna distinguish SG into being actors, even if it is a symbolic reference. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:22:50 -0500 From: El Conspiraco Subject: Re: Spoonman [] Spoonman? Well, Chris had the riff down in 1991, during the film Singles, and then Jeff Ament (I think, gave him the title, and he went from there. If you got the Alive in the SU, then you would here about Chris's method of writing songs. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:20:03 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: Spoonman -----Original Message----- >How about Spoonman? I always thought it was about a guy who played the spoons >for a living or something. Maybe he was like a bum, living in Seattle. And >Chris met him one day. > >MATT I don't think that all Soundgarden songs have deep lyrics. I think that some lyrics are written just because it sounds good with the riff. In Spoonman, the song has catchy phrases but in general the song was inspired by the Spoonman in Seattle. There is no theme or interpretation to that song. It just very catchy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:52:31 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: Down on the Upside Title The title comes from Dusty, "It's backing down and under, I'm down on the upside now." What I thought the title meant was the "upside" was being famous and having all those adoring fans. This goes with the "movie theme" implying that they are stars living on the "upside". Being "down on the upside" means although you are a star living on the upside, you are just like the normal people that are not "on the upside". In a way, you are down to the level of being a normal person. I think that when Chris Cornell, like everyone else, wanted to be a famous rock star. However, when he reached that status, he got married and settled down and became more like a normal person. In Dusty, the first line goes, "I think it's turning back around, and I think I like it". This means that now appreciates the aspects of being a normal person and having a family as opposed to the rock star life. It is ironic that someone would want to be a star and when they become that star, they learn to appreciate some of the aspects of a normal life. This is the case with many movie stars and famous athletes as well who can't walk in a public place without so much attention being brought to them and having tabloids and what not nit-pick their lives. I think that this is the general theme of Dusty as well as the album title. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:06:37 EST From: SpoOnArTis Subject: Re: Down on the Upside Title All this song interp. is great. I've sorta been waitin for people to actually start thinkin, because I've wanted to start a song interp site for a while now. Koggle has already sent me somethink, and a few other people have expressed interest. So if you want to send me an interp, go ahead. You can do any song, and as many songs as you want. Here we go again!!! I think I will bve able to handle this, its only copy and paste....... ~Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:09:22 EST From: CTMc4 Subject: THE LIVE ALBUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the sg members are compiling a live album from various shows. charlie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:25:16 -0600 From: Ugly Truth Subject: Spoonman > > How about Spoonman? I always thought it was about a guy who played the spoons > for a living or something. Maybe he was like a bum, living in Seattle. And > Chris met him one day. > People say it's about THE spoonman, and it very well might be(probably is). I always thought it was about heroin addiction myself though(the whole spoon thing....just in case you didn't know heroin is 'cooked' in a spoon and then sucked into the needle). All my friends are skeletons........could be about people lost to heroin( A LOT of them), or just about how heroin addicts become emaciated after long-term use so they look like walking skeletons....... Just a thought. - Ugly Truth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:38:21 EST From: GreenC1838 Subject: Re: Spoonman i always thought it was about a crack dealer myself. Ya know, the spoon to melt down the crack, and listen to the lyrics, u'll see wut im talkin about -GwYn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:44:06 EST From: GreenC1838 Subject: oops oops, i didnt read that spoonman letrter from ugly truth, i didnt know she put that down, i feelk like a retard now! -GwYn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:44:02 -0500 From: El Conspiraco Subject: Re: THE LIVEALBUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! If the members were making a live album, it would be somewhere other than the list.. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:43:48 -0500 From: "Michelle A. Leco" Subject: Re: Down on the Upside Title I think that Aladdin's interp of the title and SG fame is interesting, however I don't agree. (Naturally) I agree with upside meaning being famous, having money and all of the "good things" in life. But I think being down on it is referring to not being happy or satisfied with these things. As in I'm feeling down even though I'm having good experiences. Not that I think the guys were depressed or anything. I think that it goes with their whole outlook on music and fame. > I think that when Chris Cornell, >like everyone else, wanted to be a famous rock star. >of being a normal person and having a family as opposed to the rock star >life. It is ironic that someone would want to be a star and when they >become that star, they learn to appreciate some of the aspects of a normal >life. I don't recall reading anywhere that C.C. wanted to be a famous rock star. (Or any of the other guys for that matter.) If you want stardom, you write radio friendly, pop-songs that will merge nicely into the mainstream. They wrote music for themselves and for the music. What exactly is being normal? Chris was once quoted as saying that it was a good thing that he did the kind of work that he does, because if he didn't he'd probably be a recluse in the woods. That's not exactly the personality of someone who wants to be a rock star. And if the guys are into being rock stars, why aren't they out there spewing out music? After all, Kim had said in the GW interview (I think) that he didn't think that he wanted to play anymore because he's played with the best (Chris, Ben and Matt). So really what's left after that? Clearly it was all for the music, not stardom. So please, if I'm wrong, correct me. And if I sound a little bitchy, I apologize. I just don't like it when it sounds like someone may thing SG was in it for the fame. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:28:19 EST From: XAnavriNX Subject: My opinions I think you guys are reading too much into the title. It could just be being down while you're supposed to be up. Like you're going up and your mood is down. Everything is great, but you're not happy. Spoonman, in my opinion, is being really in tune with music. Like if you've ever been to a live show of any band, you would know how you almost become the music. "Beat the rhythm with their bones".At concerts, they play music way too loud so you can't escape from it... and if its a band you reeally like... you succumb to it. Thats my opinion.On that. Later. Igor. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:47:43 PST From: Arden SunGod Subject: Anything and everything! First off, I'd like to agree with everyone who likes the interpretation thread, good ol' somms is kicking back to life! And I'd like to tell Denise that her interp of Spoonman blew me away.. I never thought of it like Herion addiction! But anyway, I encourage any and all to keep up on this thread. There are hundreds of songs out here for us to pick apart, no wrong answers, and it's intellegent conversation! I'm interested in finding out what you guys all think about Birth Ritual though. Here's what I got out of it (and everyone I've ever shown this has given me weird looks and asked me where the hell I got what I got, but here goes nothing!) You'll have to read the whole thing to make sence of the line by line interp.. it's a little odd. Does anyone know when Chris wrote this?! It would make a big difference.. "Lying like needles on forest earth" I think forest earth is whatever you want to call it.. the "seattle scene" for lack of better title. Soundgarden would be but a mere needle on the ground, in comparison to the billions of bands we seem to have here.. "Euphoric rush, the trees bend to pray for us" the euphoric rush would be maybe the thrill of eluding record labels? trees bending and praying for them would be the very origional fans.. been around as long as the damn trees, or so it would seem. "I'm sputtering like cold machines" Chris may be a little worried about being signed, or the "scene" getting big, or what have you. He's having a hard time adjusting. "Late for the birth ritual" if you remember correctly when "grunge" broke out into the *media* (I'm talking MTV like media, not local.) they weren't exactly the first ones out there. Mind you, I'm not saying they weren't one of the first bands to start the whole schpeel, I'm saying that they weren't credited to it. That would make them late for being 'born' into the media spotlight. "You can drive my tail to watch the circus" The circus would be the literal chaos of shit going on up here in the northwest, and chris is saying that they can (or are) using him to get at everyone else. (I always have trouble with this line.. any help throughout this is appreaciated!) "A birth ritual, a birth of idiots" Bands up here were getting signed for virtually no reason besides the fact there were "grunge". They were inexperianced.. idiots, plain and simple! No one had to work to get where they were going.. tends to make some of these older wiser bands a little cynical! "I woke up blessed, good strives for heart ache" All of the sudden (or maybe not so suddenly..) he's getting attention, and though he trys to remain unchanged, it's hard, and it hurts. "Marked for the death ritual" He feels that by getting signed/famous (what have you) that they may be ruining him and all he stands for. "As you start the song and face the garden" The song could literally be the meeting between the band and the A&M rep, or some other important figure, who is quite literally facing THE 'Garden. "I light a cigarette before the execution" I believe that this part of the song is moment by moment, not a large concept like some other songs. The guy takes out the contract, and Chris lights up.. maybe from nerves? "Now you see your crime, for every miracle" Whomever chris is singing this to (the record rep or who ever.) is finally seeing that though he's making money off all these "grunge" bands he's signing, he's ruining them. Grunge was fully dependant on the fact that Seattle was getting *no* attention, not getting *all* the attention. "add another drug at every birth ritual" Each new band the guy is signing he adds a few more catches to the contract... or maybe he's adding another drug to keep him from seeing what he's doing to people. (Anyone who's read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest that would be like Public Relation) "I took the drug to make me stay" With this line, I'd go with the first of the two above interpretations. He took the contract, hooks and all, and since it's so damn long (hey, that A&M contract was for 7 albums..) it basically will force him to stay. "Now everything dies in shyness" he feels a bit scared and suppressed dealing with such a huge touchy audience today. He may try not to care, but if you're writing music for the general public you have to take into mind how stupid people really are. "The snake retreats admits defeat and waits for the birth ritual" he other compainies that were being pursued (Chris has said that they had 3 majors after them at a time..) "Shining light.. child's highs bright into the newness wears off" He has hope for what he can do with his new money and resources, and the child's highs would be like when a kid gets a new toy and they play with is and play with it and are just euphorically happy.. and people will think they're great, and everything, but when people get used to they'll get all unpopular again, and back to where they were. Not saying that they care all that much, just stating that as a fact. Anyway, let me know what you guys think of this.. it's kind of a cute idea, but I have the feeling I'm pretty far off. Knowning my fellow sommsters I'll be hearing just how wrong I was for the next couple days, but I want to know what you can come up with first! ..have fun.. Birth Ritual is way harder than Burden and a mile away from TDITTL. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:12:18 -0500 From: NIKI FREER Subject: the no longer sommsless one is.... JON-PAUL ANDOLINA!!!!!!!!!!! woo hoo!! you are the proud owner of Somms now! oh, and so sorry this is so late in coming, i have been sick as a dog since last night, and this is the first i've actually sat up straight for more than 30 seconds without feeling like i'm going to pass out. = ( blah, college sicknesses!! anyways, don't write me back here, write me back at the other address because this is just me in my room using the address i never use. thanks for playing the Somms game! if i don't get a response from the winner within 5 days, i'll hold another drawing! love you all. mind riot ____ buying lies and stealing jokes and laughing every time i choke now i know why you've been shaking ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:50:32 -0800 From: Andrew Snodgrass Subject: Re: Anything and everything! Arden SunGod wrote: > > First off, I'd like to agree with everyone who likes the interpretation > thread, good ol' somms is kicking back to life! And I'd like to tell > Denise that her interp of Spoonman blew me away.. I never thought of it > like Herion addiction! But anyway, I encourage any and all to keep up > on this thread. There are hundreds of songs out here for us to pick > apart, no wrong answers, and it's intellegent conversation! I'm > interested in finding out what you guys all think about Birth Ritual > though. Here's what I got out of it (and everyone I've ever shown this > has given me weird looks and asked me where the hell I got what I got, > but here goes nothing!) You'll have to read the whole thing to make > sence of the line by line interp.. it's a little odd. Does anyone know > when Chris wrote this?! It would make a big difference.. > > "Lying like needles on forest earth" I think forest earth is whatever > you want to call it.. the "seattle scene" for lack of better title. > Soundgarden would be but a mere needle on the ground, in comparison to > the billions of bands we seem to have here.. > > "Euphoric rush, the trees bend to pray for us" the euphoric rush would > be maybe the thrill of eluding record labels? trees bending and praying > for them would be the very origional fans.. been around as long as the > damn trees, or so it would seem. > > "I'm sputtering like cold machines" Chris may be a little worried about > being signed, or the "scene" getting big, or what have you. He's having > a hard time adjusting. > > "Late for the birth ritual" if you remember correctly when "grunge" > broke out into the *media* (I'm talking MTV like media, not local.) they > weren't exactly the first ones out there. Mind you, I'm not saying they > weren't one of the first bands to start the whole schpeel, I'm saying > that they weren't credited to it. That would make them late for being > 'born' into the media spotlight. > > "You can drive my tail to watch the circus" The circus would be the > literal chaos of shit going on up here in the northwest, and chris is > saying that they can (or are) using him to get at everyone else. (I > always have trouble with this line.. any help throughout this is > appreaciated!) > > "A birth ritual, a birth of idiots" Bands up here were getting signed > for virtually no reason besides the fact there were "grunge". They were > inexperianced.. idiots, plain and simple! No one had to work to get > where they were going.. tends to make some of these older wiser bands a > little cynical! > > "I woke up blessed, good strives for heart ache" All of the sudden (or > maybe not so suddenly..) he's getting attention, and though he trys to > remain unchanged, it's hard, and it hurts. > > "Marked for the death ritual" He feels that by getting signed/famous > (what have you) that they may be ruining him and all he stands for. > > "As you start the song and face the garden" The song could literally be > the meeting between the band and the A&M rep, or some other important > figure, who is quite literally facing THE 'Garden. > > "I light a cigarette before the execution" I believe that this part of > the song is moment by moment, not a large concept like some other songs. > The guy takes out the contract, and Chris lights up.. maybe from nerves? > > "Now you see your crime, for every miracle" Whomever chris is singing > this to (the record rep or who ever.) is finally seeing that though he's > making money off all these "grunge" bands he's signing, he's ruining > them. Grunge was fully dependant on the fact that Seattle was getting > *no* attention, not getting *all* the attention. > > "add another drug at every birth ritual" Each new band the guy is > signing he adds a few more catches to the contract... or maybe he's > adding another drug to keep him from seeing what he's doing to people. > (Anyone who's read One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest that would be like > Public Relation) > > "I took the drug to make me stay" With this line, I'd go with the first > of the two above interpretations. He took the contract, hooks and all, > and since it's so damn long (hey, that A&M contract was for 7 albums..) > it basically will force him to stay. > > "Now everything dies in shyness" he feels a bit scared and suppressed > dealing with such a huge touchy audience today. He may try not to care, > but if you're writing music for the general public you have to take into > mind how stupid people really are. > > "The snake retreats admits defeat and waits for the birth ritual" he > other compainies that were being pursued (Chris has said that they had 3 > majors after them at a time..) > > "Shining light.. child's highs bright into the newness wears off" He > has hope for what he can do with his new money and resources, and the > child's highs would be like when a kid gets a new toy and they play with > is and play with it and are just euphorically happy.. and people will > think they're great, and everything, but when people get used to they'll > get all unpopular again, and back to where they were. Not saying that > they care all that much, just stating that as a fact. > > Anyway, let me know what you guys think of this.. it's kind of a cute > idea, but I have the feeling I'm pretty far off. Knowning my fellow > sommsters I'll be hearing just how wrong I was for the next couple days, > but I want to know what you can come up with first! ..have fun.. Birth > Ritual is way harder than Burden and a mile away from TDITTL. I thought it was about them looking for a new bass player after Hiro left. "I light a cigarette before the execution..." is that he lights up before telling the guy that he did not make the cut (not make it into the band). Just my thoughts. -- -AS mailto:asnod@home.com http://www.csusm.edu/public/guests/asnod/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:26:06 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: Blind Dogs Interpretation I think that Blind Dogs is one of the most controversial songs Soundgarden has ever written because it specically insults the followers of religions in general and specically the followers of Christianity. It starts out with an ecouragement to break free from established religions and start thinking for about God or life in general on your own. "Run Away, now its Halloween" This means to escape from just following the religion that you were brought up to believe. Halloween was a pagan holiday in which pagans, who didn't believe in God, used to where masks to scare spirits away. Buy running away from the religion, you will be considered a pagan by that religion. "Shave your head and burn your sheets" Shaving your head would make you look different. By going away from the religion and thinking from you own your own you will be different from the others. Sleep is a monotonous part of everyone's life-almost all people do it every single day. Burning your sheets symbolizes breaking the monotony of following the religion that you were brought up to follow like most people do in society. "Evil right next door. What do Blind Dog's believe. I don't want to know" These lyrics take the point of view of one who is in the religion. This is a close-minded view about people that are not in their religion. These people in the religion don't want to bother with learning about any other religion because they stubbornly think that their religion is definately the right one. "Blind following Blind" The first blind refers to the followers of the religion. They have "blind faith" and follow that religion not because they thought about other religions and chose this one but because they were brought up with this one and feel that it must be right. The "blind" that they are following refers to the leaders of the religion. This means that the religious leaders are leading those followers to the wrong path since they are also blind. Think about it. There is over a billion Christians, a billion Muslims, and 300 million Jews in the world as well as millions of other people in other religion. THEY CAN'T ALL BE RIGHT. Whose to say that any are right for sure. Most of you are thinking that your religion is definately the right one. If you don't have the right reasons for thinking so, you may be a "blind dog" "Run away , now it's Halloween" Already discussed "The safe bet is on your knees, Bow your head to the Trinity, Thats what Blind Dogs believe, I've heard that before" On your knees means praying and also surrendering yourself to that religion. These blind followers of faith use religion not mainly as means to worhsip God and practice their beliefs but as insurance to go to heaven or whatever the religion says they will go. These blind dogs don't question the aspects of the religion because they are just playing it safe. Thats what makes them Blind Dogs. Bowing your head to Trinity specifically points out Christianity since that is the only religion that believe in Trinity. However, this is probably because Christianity is the religion that Chris has been most exposed to and "seen before" "Dead on my feet when the nightmare walks" The fear of death is the main reason that the blind dogs follow their religion. If religions believed that when you die then that's it not many would practice that religion. Religion provides an insurance that the permanent death will not happen and there will be a heaven. "I fell asleep where the freeway talks" Freeways are travelled by many people. The freeway symbolizes religion which is followed by many people. The blind dogs "fell asleep" by not thinking about religion for themselves and choosing to take the religion travelled by many people. This reminds me of the poem "A Fork in the Road" by Robert Frost in which the narrator has a choice between taking the symbolic road less traveled by or road travelled by more frequently. "Suffering to swim and dying to sink" This refers to the struggle of breaking free from being a blind dog and thinking for your own. Swimming above the deep waters of the popular religion is much harder than sinking and going back to the religion without questioning it. Breaking from a religion or questioning it would make you a HETERIC, which is also another song by Soundgarden and follows a similar theme. "These things in the air will make you think" This could mean a few things. It could mean seeing how so many are blind dogs can make you question how so many in society just try to blend in and not do anything different or special. It could also mean that this song will make you think about relgion or society in general in a different way. For all of you that never heard this song or don't have it, I strongly suggest you get it. I feel that it is one of the best songs ever. It is on the Basketball Diaries soundtrack. One special thing about Soundgarden is that if they make a song for a movie of a benefit album, it really pertains to it. The movie Basketball Diaries is about Jim Carroll, played by Leonardo Dicaprio, who grows up going to Catholic schools and does not fit in. Sunshower goes real well with Great Expectations and Kyle Petty, Son of Richard gets you in the mind of a adolescent "punk" which goes well with the Home Alive benefit album. P.S. No Bill, I am not having trouble with religion either 8^) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:10:06 -0600 From: Andy Cooper Subject: Interps... All this talk about what lyrics mean......here's another to decipher! What do you guys think the song "Exit Stonehenge" is about. Its lyrics are, well, kinda different.......... Cooper **************************** Andrew Cooper ICQ# 3020065 **************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:19:25 EST From: BDMOTRFING Subject: rock stars While I don't believe that Soundgarden and more specifically Chris were in it to become stars I do know that they did like becoming successful. I can't say for certain but I remember reading an article in which Chris does say that while he and the band members dislike the bullshit and complications that fame has brought them, he still likes being a rock star. I think the problem is the term rock star. Whenever some of us hear that term we get a negative vision in our minds. Jon Bon Jovi was a rock star and bands like poison and warrant were filled with people that played music in order to become stars. That is the negative rock star. But when I read Chris's comments I realized that rock stars are any rock musician that becomes famous. Chris's ultimate goal wasn't to become a star, he loved music and loved playing it. I don't think that there is anything wrong with wanting to become famous for doing something you love doing. Think about things you love doing, wouldn't it be great to become rich and famous for doing that? So long as the ultimate goal is to do something you love, wanting to become a star (if secondary) is not a bad thing. I think that alot of those eighties hair bands and other stars warped the concept of becoming a star because that was their ultimate goal, they would have done anything to reach that goal. The reason I fell in love with Soundgarden (besides their music) was that they and other bands finally cared about substance over style. No, I don't think it was the goal of the band members to become rock stars but they still liked the good parts of it. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* IF THIS ISN'T MAKING SENSE IT DOESN'T MAKE IT LIES ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:50:32 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: spring cleaning It's that time of year. Jen is trying to find the house under all the junk. (I know it's under there somewhere). So, I'm selling some things and I wanted to let you guys and gals have first crack at them. There's not much SG or related stuff, and if there are multiple offers on those things I will have a drawing. Everything else is first come first served. If you want the list, e-mail me privately. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:58:21 EST From: Gardner167 Subject: KEEP IT OFF MY WAVE!!!!! interps....my opinion.....what does this mean.....the meaning of this..... who cares!!! now stop right there.... put those flame throwers down.. im just sick of deleteing all these lame messages about how (mind riot) helped you get over your 4th girlfriend, or how (pretty nuse) reminds you of a girl/boy in your english class. come on people...... there are real issues out there to discuss!! like the REAL lyrics to "incessent mace"......or the missing 3rd line of "kingdom of come" subject matter of FACT!!! wanna start a thread??? try answering the (3rd line of "kingdom of come") question...... mike. "trying though i know its wrong" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:22:36 -0600 From: Bill Flanders Subject: Re: Blind Dogs Interpretation WARNING: THIS MESSAGE WILL OFFEND PEOPLE This is one interpretation that basically can't be wrong. Still... it's interesting to discuss it. I liked your "Burden in my Hand" = bottle of whiskey interpretation... it makes more sense than the others... and if I had thought of that, I would have written such an interpretation...though I'm still stuck on the unappeable guilt idea given the tone of the song. Same thing with the mirrors/razors... just pointing out what would probably be the meaning based on common uses of terms seems really valuable. >I think that Blind Dogs is one of the most controversial songs Soundgarden >has ever written because it specically insults the followers of religions in >general and specically the followers of Christianity. It starts out with an >ecouragement to break free from established religions and start thinking for >about God or life in general on your own. Maybe I just have a warped point of view, but questioning Christianity doesn't seem very controversial and hasn't since Nietszche... Yeah. I agree... this is a denigration of believing in Christianity due to popular opinion. >"Run Away, now its Halloween" >This means to escape from just following the religion that you were brought >up to believe. Halloween was a pagan holiday in which pagans, who didn't >believe in God, used to where masks to scare spirits away. Buy running away >from the religion, you will be considered a pagan by that religion. Here's my take - "you superstitious idiots." >"Shave your head and burn your sheets" >Shaving your head would make you look different. By going away from the >religion and thinking from you own your own you will be different from the >others. Sleep is a monotonous part of everyone's life-almost all people do >it every single day. Burning your sheets symbolizes breaking the monotony >of following the religion that you were brought up to follow like most >people do in society. Here is my take - "go ahead with your absurd, pointless rituals" >"Evil right next door. What do Blind Dog's believe. I don't want to know" >These lyrics take the point of view of one who is in the religion. This is >a close-minded view about people that are not in their religion. These >people in the religion don't want to bother with learning about any other >religion because they stubbornly think that their religion is definately the >right one. To me, this is another look at superstition, witch-hunting and the like. >"The safe bet is on your knees, Bow your head to the Trinity, Thats what >Blind Dogs believe, I've heard that before" > On your knees means praying and also surrendering yourself to that >religion. These blind followers of faith use religion not mainly as means >to worhsip God and practice their beliefs but as insurance to go to heaven >or whatever the religion says they will go. These blind dogs don't question >the aspects of the religion because they are just playing it safe. Thats >what makes them Blind Dogs. Bowing your head to Trinity specifically points >out Christianity since that is the only religion that believe in Trinity. >However, this is probably because Christianity is the religion that Chris >has been most exposed to and "seen before" That has to be the most interesting line in the song. To me, it's a criticism of Pascal's Wager: http://www.emich.edu/public/philosophy/dominos_other_files/Pascals_Wager.html >"Dead on my feet when the nightmare walks" >The fear of death is the main reason that the blind dogs follow their >religion. If religions believed that when you die then that's it not many >would practice that religion. Religion provides an insurance that the >permanent death will not happen and there will be a heaven. I'll have to admit that I have no idea about this one... maybe the walking nightmare is one of those halloween demons frightening the blind. >"I fell asleep where the freeway talks" >Freeways are travelled by many people. The freeway symbolizes religion >which is followed by many people. The blind dogs "fell asleep" by not >thinking about religion for themselves and choosing to take the religion >travelled by many people. This reminds me of the poem "A Fork in the Road" >by Robert Frost in which the narrator has a choice between taking the >symbolic road less traveled by or road travelled by more frequently. Yeah... meaning that he took one of the country roads, instead of the freeway. Cool point. >"Suffering to swim and dying to sink" >This refers to the struggle of breaking free from being a blind dog and >thinking for your own. Swimming above the deep waters of the popular >religion is much harder than sinking and going back to the religion without >questioning it. Breaking from a religion or questioning it would make you a >HETERIC, which is also another song by Soundgarden and follows a similar >theme. Okay.. I'll have to part with you on that one. I think this refers to the life of a devout Christian. Christianity teaches selfless suffering for God or burning eternally... there are two paths in this case: suffering or damnation. >"These things in the air will make you think" >This could mean a few things. It could mean seeing how so many are blind >dogs can make you question how so many in society just try to blend in and >not do anything different or special. It could also mean that this song >will make you think about relgion or society in general in a different way. Yeah... this line is up for grabs. Maybe just saying that this whole line of reasoning was the result of actually thinking about these things. >P.S. No Bill, I am not having trouble with religion either 8^) No... you seem to have a good handle on it. :) Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:32:02 -0600 From: Bill Flanders Subject: Re: KEEP IT OFF MY WAVE!!!!! At 12:58 AM 4/1/98 EST, Gardner167 wrote: >interps....my opinion.....what does this mean.....the meaning of this..... who >cares!!! What matters is that whenever I hear a song that I've actually discussed it means something more than it once did. A great deal of the time Soundgarden has put the meaning of the lyrics and tone of the song together, and they reinforce eachother and add a third dimension to the music. That's why I care. >now stop right there.... put those flame throwers down.. >im just sick of deleteing all these lame messages about how (mind riot) helped >you get over your 4th girlfriend, or how (pretty nuse) reminds you of a >girl/boy in your english class. Maybe they wrote a song about a listener unduly interested in the first, most superficial layer of their creations. I think that may be what "Exit Stonehenge" was all about. >come on people...... >there are real issues out there to discuss!! like the REAL lyrics to >"incessent mace"......or the missing 3rd line of "kingdom of come" >subject matter of FACT!!! > >wanna start a thread??? try answering the (3rd line of "kingdom of come") >question...... What do you think he says? Bill ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 31 Mar 1998 to 1 Apr 1998 ***********************************************