Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 02:00:12 -0500 Subject: SOMMS Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 There are 23 messages totalling 671 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. but my feet just won't leave the ground... (2) 2. interpretations 3. Soundgarden Anthems (3) 4. Bleed together (2) 5. Soundgarden 101 (6) 6. i'd like an apprasial! 7. Wellwater Conspriracy 8. Interpretations (2) 9. Shit sides 10. Covers/ 11. HELLO I AM STINK FIST 12. anthem 13. Matt Got Married To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 17:25:03 +1000 From: justin nicholls Subject: but my feet just won't leave the ground... On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, William Flanders wrote: > At 05:22 PM 10/28/97 -0800, S. Kutz wrote: > >I've read somewhere before that the lyrics don't necessarily have deep > >meanings, and whether or not they do or not isn't the point. > > I think you read that in the Soundgarden FAQ. And I honestly > think that is crap. The Nirvana FAQ has all types of interpretations > of songs. And they matter so much, especially for songs with strong as author of the soundgarden faq (it is mine you are talking about, right?), I feel I should respond. it will be brief. I will agree that it is nice to know what the lyricist was thinking when he or she wrote down those words. but I also feel that that should not override personal interpretation and individual thought. yes, of course I'd love to have a piece of paper in front of me that listed the exact subject and philosophical angle of every soundgarden lyric. that would certainly satisfy the curious dog in me. but that would also take some of the magic and mystery out of the music. more importantly, it would take the music away from *me*. it wouldn't be mine anymore, mine to interpret, perceive or hear for myself. I don't know what the hell a song like 'tighter and tighter' is all about. nor do I particularly want to know. I think it is more important to be impacted by the thoughts, images and emotion of the lyrics I love, not the calculations and mental processes behind them. justin ------ and I'm lost behind the words I'll never find and I'm left behind as the seasons roll on by - words by chris cornell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:39:56 -0500 From: Jenny Grover Subject: interpretations Bill wrote: > I should remember that art is meant for personal interpretations and > expressions... I can't recall ever thinking this was true. I've always > thought of art as a form of communication, just like math or science or > english, but not dealing with logical truths or ideas but with emotion. I believe what she is saying is that the meaning or meaningfulness of a work of art should not be dependent on what the literal experience of the artist in creating or conceiving it was. What makes it art, rather than some sort of pedestrian retelling is that we can bring our own experience into it and therefore be personally enriched by it. Since this is the intention of most poets and lyricists, I am certain that it is Chris's intention as well. And there is art that deals with logical truths and even mathematical formulation (like Bridget Riley). > Consider what art would be if it were not a form of communication, and the > artist could be disregarded.. Would having an artist matter? Ah! This is an interesting thing for an artist to ponder, and most of us have. I must say that I have seen (and heard) art that is very intriguing and "artful" in it's refusal to communicate, in it's insistence on meaninglessness (Dada for example). > Wouldn't we > consider the arrangements of weeds in the lawn as art, and maybe interpret > this arrangement as a battle of good and evil, grass and weeds? What point > would there be of this? That it makes it a whole lot more fun to look at a bad lawn. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 02:37:09 -0600 From: William Flanders Subject: Re: but my feet just won't leave the ground... At 05:25 PM 10/29/97 +1000, you wrote: >On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, William Flanders wrote: > >> At 05:22 PM 10/28/97 -0800, S. Kutz wrote: >> >I've read somewhere before that the lyrics don't necessarily have deep >> >meanings, and whether or not they do or not isn't the point. >> >> I think you read that in the Soundgarden FAQ. And I honestly >> think that is crap. The Nirvana FAQ has all types of interpretations >> of songs. And they matter so much, especially for songs with strong > >as author of the soundgarden faq (it is mine you are talking about, >right?), I feel I should respond. it will be brief. >I will agree that it is nice to know what the lyricist was thinking when >he or she wrote down those words. > >but I also feel that that should not override personal interpretation and >individual thought. > >yes, of course I'd love to have a piece of paper in front of me that >listed the exact subject and philosophical angle of every soundgarden >lyric. that would certainly satisfy the curious dog in me. > >but that would also take some of the magic and mystery out of the music. >more importantly, it would take the music away from *me*. it wouldn't be >mine anymore, mine to interpret, perceive or hear for myself. > >I don't know what the hell a song like 'tighter and tighter' is all about. >nor do I particularly want to know. I think it is more important to be >impacted by the thoughts, images and emotion of the lyrics I love, not the >calculations and mental processes behind them. I hope I didn't offend you. I feel honored to even get a response from the FAQ maintainer! I do understand your vantage point , and I'll take it into consideration when discussing such matters. But at this moment, I feel *my* experience of the music is improved by understanding its motivation. And it is more than misleading to term this motivation as "calculations." We have a philosophical difference in how we appreciate art, and that's fine with me. It seems that most people approach music the way you do, so leave the FAQ the way it is, without interpretations. Good luck in keeping the band alive! Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:42:53 -0500 From: Nadezhda Ball Subject: Re: Soundgarden Anthems Hope everyone's fine in SOMMSland...... Okay, so we have all agreed BHS is the anthem, what everyone will remember..... It's not what we'll remember, right? So non-singles won't cut it, right? Well here's what I believe will be their anthems, just from how people respond to me about them..... besides BHS... everyone feels compelled to sing these songs when I mention SG Spoonman Outshined Rusty Cage BUTOW I met a rasta a coupla days after the break up, who said..."aren't they the guys who said, nothing will ever kill me no matter how hard I try" But I guess the anthem is up to what eMpTyV feels is right...right? I think the greatest hits will help them decide.... Well y'all it's time for me to make like a guy and beat it.....Take care much luv, and all that jazz... DeZHy "if this isn't makin sense, it doesn't make it lies." "the truth don't look that good on me." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:06:20 -0500 From: Alissa Corsi Subject: Re: Soundgarden Anthems Soundgarden Anthems... hmmm. I really never saw or see them as anthem-like. Of course, and you can't pick or choose this kind of thing (sorry!), Black Hole Sun will most surely be known by the "general public" as the Soundgarden song. That's what they will associate them w/ and that's that. No matter how much it pisses us off, or annoys us... we can't change that. But we each (or probably most of us) have our *own* Soundgarden Anthems. The Soundgarden song that just makes you rock out. The one you identify w/. The one song that gives you the most warm, fuzzy, Soundgarden feeling inside. =) But if we could pick or choose a Soundgarden "anthem" songs that kinda left that Soundgarden feel on you I'd think a lot of people (Garden-educated people I'm saying) would pick songs like Outshined, JCP, maybe even Loud Love or Beyond the Wheel. These aren't necessarily *my* favorite songs just songs that these songs are ones a lot of people identify w/. But your own personal *anthem* is yours. =)~ "Remember I love you, love you" love, lissa =) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:34:08 -0500 From: Lance Huber Subject: Bleed together Does anyone know if there has been any word on whether or not 'Bleed Together' will be released anywhere in the world as a single? And if so........ What are the ironic chances that it will contain a B-side? Seth, any word on this front? Lance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:30:02 -0600 From: tonerkin Subject: Soundgarden 101 Hi! Everyone has been talking about Soundgarden anthems. BUTT I have run into a different problem. I was making a tape for someone today on another mailing list and this person has never heard Soundgarden. He likes "older" music shall we say. The tape he sent me of his "Hot Hits" was frightening! (Maybe I'll play it for Halloween to scare the little children away so I can eat the candy) Anyway, I wanted to "turn him on" to Soundgarden but I don't want to frighten him!! What does anyone suggest for some baby steps into the world of Soundgarden?? I only have room on the tape for appx. 4 songs. And I want something that represents the band but won't hurt the tender ears of someone who is a Soundgarden virgin!! Help! toni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:44:33 -0800 From: "S. Kutz" Subject: Re: Soundgarden 101 That shouldn't be too hard! Do you mean by "older" music that he shuns heavy, hard stuff that has a beat, or that he's got a thing about today's use of certain "language"? =) that will help the deciding factors i think. Personally though I think that you should put fell on black days (it's pretty non-offensive), maybe rhinosaur or zero chance, and either hunted down or nothing to say. I'd be interested in knowing what this person thinks! sarah =P On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, tonerkin wrote: > Hi! Everyone has been talking about Soundgarden anthems. BUTT I have > run into a different problem. I was making a tape for someone today on > another mailing list and this person has never heard Soundgarden. He likes > "older" music shall we say. The tape he sent me of his "Hot Hits" was > frightening! (Maybe I'll play it for Halloween to scare the little children > away so I can eat the candy) Anyway, I wanted to "turn him on" to > Soundgarden but I don't want to frighten him!! What does anyone suggest > for some baby steps into the world of Soundgarden?? I only have room on > the tape for appx. 4 songs. And I want something that represents the band > but won't hurt the tender ears of someone who is a Soundgarden virgin!! > Help! toni > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:01:42 -0800 From: "S. Kutz" Subject: i'd like an apprasial! if anyone has any clue at all on this...Remember when Soundgarden made it on the cover of Rolling Stone back in '94? I happen to have that autographed by the collective members of the band and I'm wondering what it's worth (if anything.) Anyone know about this kind of thing? Please, no one send me offers or requests to buy it, I'm not about to do that. =) thanks! sarah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:12:43 -0500 From: DeeDee Kamp Subject: Re: Soundgarden 101 i think you should skip the obvious ones like BHS and FOBD...but spoonman, rusty cage, and outshined might be good...or you could pick one from each of their CDs to give him a good mix of stuff that they have done...its so hard picking the perfect SG songs for an SG virgin when you love most everything that they do...picking just four is difficult Toni!!! DeeDee At 11:30 AM 10/29/97 -0600, you wrote: > Hi! Everyone has been talking about Soundgarden anthems. BUTT I have >run into a different problem. I was making a tape for someone today on >another mailing list and this person has never heard Soundgarden. He likes >"older" music shall we say. The tape he sent me of his "Hot Hits" was >frightening! (Maybe I'll play it for Halloween to scare the little children >away so I can eat the candy) Anyway, I wanted to "turn him on" to >Soundgarden but I don't want to frighten him!! What does anyone suggest >for some baby steps into the world of Soundgarden?? I only have room on >the tape for appx. 4 songs. And I want something that represents the band >but won't hurt the tender ears of someone who is a Soundgarden virgin!! >Help! toni > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:41:04 -0500 From: Jamesetta Simpson Subject: Re: Soundgarden 101 Our own TV personality Toni wrote: >What does anyone suggest >for some baby steps into the world of Soundgarden?? I only have room on >the tape for appx. 4 songs. And I want something that represents the band >but won't hurt the tender ears of someone who is a Soundgarden virgin!! >Help! toni I would give him something from the "Badmotorfinger" CD.. Rusty Cage, Outshined, Slaves & Bulldozers, Jesus Christ Pose, or Drawing Flies for instances. If he likes the older stuff then these songs would or should give him a taste for our Soundgarden. Jamie (SOMMs Mom) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:07:16 -0500 From: Elric&Dagny Subject: Re: Soundgarden 101 > Soundgarden but I don't want to frighten him!! What does anyone suggest > for some baby steps into the world of Soundgarden?? I only have room on > the tape for appx. 4 songs. And I want something that represents the band > but won't hurt the tender ears of someone who is a Soundgarden virgin!! If I could only choose 4 songs for a virgin, I would have to go with FOBD, Like Suicide, BUTOW, and BIMH. I think these are somewhat representative of SG while at the same time being "accessible" to someone who isn't prepared for the full-on music we all love. :) Bless you for being a good SG missionary!! Life Rules! Dagny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:45:28 -0500 From: "Freer, Nicole A." Subject: Re: Bleed together Lance wrote: > Does anyone know if there has been any word on whether or not 'Bleed > Together' will be released anywhere in the world as a single? > I have a friend who works at her college's radio station, and they got in a promo of the song... now, whether or not that spells S-I-N-G-L-E i just don't know, but it seems that way to me... > What are the ironic chances that it will contain a B-side? > do you *really* want to hear another remix of FoBD????? AUGH NO!!!! = ) just kidding folks! mind riot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 13:39:36 -0600 From: Mayor McCheese Subject: Re: Soundgarden 101 On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, tonerkin wrote: > Soundgarden but I don't want to frighten him!! What does anyone suggest > for some baby steps into the world of Soundgarden?? I only have room on > the tape for appx. 4 songs. And I want something that represents the band > but won't hurt the tender ears of someone who is a Soundgarden virgin!! This should do: 1) Half 2) Applebite 3) I Awake 4) 666->667 Alternatives: 1) Exit Stonehenge 2) Motercycle Loop 3) Jerry Garcia's Finger 4) One Minute of Silence 5) Circle of Power 6) Black Cat (from TOTD Demos) (stretching here) ************************************************************************* *********************** Mayor McCheese ********************************** ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:11:05 -0800 From: DAVID DEBOLT Subject: Wellwater Conspriracy Can anyone tell me what the Wellwater Conspiracy (is that the right name?) album is like. I saw it in a store and was wondering if it was any good. If it's like Hater, thats cool with me. David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 03:57:30 +0100 From: Nacho Priego Subject: Re: Interpretations I see the lyrics for a song as a poem, the way i see a poem :). Ok, for what i have studied, a poem doesn't talk about what it seems to talk. Doesn't matter if it makes perfect sense without diging into it, it probably has a deeper interpretation. The way i usually write is this. I get the inspiration from something trivial that reminds me other thing, or feeling, but much more special. Then I start to speak about the trivial thing, but trying to keep the story parallel to the deeper meaning. And the fun thing comes when you don't put anything that makes people think there is a deeper meaning (i.e. I don't write anything like a clue to decipher it), and they say you're silly for writing about something so stupid, like, for example, a dead bird. I don't mean I bird didn't inspirate the song. What I really mean is that the bird *just* inspirated the song. Flying so proudly, so beautiful, and killing himself for that reason, being so proud of himself, what finally destroy him. Please, don't tell me that you don't know any story like that, cause I know one personal story that fits perfectly with that song, and I think I'm not the only one... Nacho Priego - Alive in the SpanishUnknown ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 03:21:03 +0100 From: Nacho Priego Subject: Shit sides This is just a thought. No info, no news, just the products of my brain. I haven't heard the A-Sides yet. But i think of it as a murder. We have all talked about how the songs fit perfectly on every SG CD. But I think you don't get the real point of this until you try. I'm studying far from home, and i don't have a CD player here, just a radio-casette. So I made a SG tape, with the songs I suposed I like more. And now I'm starting to hate that tape. Why? Because the songs are out of context. Every SG CD is not a collection of songs, it's a melody, they are more than 16 songs playing one after other, it's a complete symphony, which doesn't make sense if you cut it in smaller parts. That's why i won't buy A-Sides. Has to say it. Sorry if not interesting. Nacho Priego - Alive in the SpanishUnknown ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:50:19 -1200 From: Kris Subject: Covers/ Who did the original version of "Smokestack Lightning"? I just figured it out on guitar and it is a moderately easy song, but i want to know who originally did it. Did you ever notice that Terry Bozzio (solo drummer, Frank Zappa) is thanked in UM OK? Why is that? Need info. Another thing, anyone that is talking about interpretations, maybe Soundgarden, Chris, or Kim have had experiences in their lives and they lye in the songs meaning. Maybe they just don't want you to know what they are about, especially the most complicated ones. Maybe Chris said "Hey! I'm gonna write a song that not even a REAL Soundgarden fan could figure out." Or maybe when they talk about songs they like to fuck around with the interviewers. Make up shit about songs meanings and questions they are asked. Hey, Nirvana loved messing with the reporters minds that had not even the slightest bit of knowledge about them. "Oh yeah, I really love that song... aghhh.... what's it called.... Come as in bloom or something like that. KURT>> "Yeah Come as you are is about a baby swimming in the water and how i like to dangle from chandeleirs." Kris Hermansen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 18:04:14 PST From: Jason Rees Subject: HELLO I AM STINK FIST HELLO, I am stink fist and i am here to turn this mailing list into a living HELL!!! just kidding, i'm new and i just like to say hi hows it goin. Oh yeah Seth Perlman, how do I get my profile on that SOMMS member thingie? Um here is a little more info about myself, I am 16 yrs old, male and Live in Appleton WI. I as you can probaly tell i am a Huge Tool and Soundgarden fan. well see you. STINK FIST " not enough, i need more nothing seems to satisfy..." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:32:01 +1100 From: Robert Joseph Hutchinson Subject: anthem in years time i think SG will have an anthem on popular radio because what is on that type of radio now is what was popular with their audience when they were younger. i'm not paying out on the older fans but i think most fans of SG are under thirty, maybe even under 25. when they are older more radio will cater to them, but most of them will only know the commercially successful songs. the anthem will be BHS, because like paranoid for black sabbath, and stairway for led zep, it was the song most recognized as a SG song and probably the most successful commercially. also as there is war pigs, black dog and rock and roll for those bands mentioned, SG will have songs like my wave, FoBD, and spoonman, that will be heard, but less often than BHS, because they are identifiable and successful. The devoted fans will still have their favourite songs, but they will not be heard on radio. keep up the song interpretations. i never really thought about like suicide before but the bird thing makes sense when its explained, and this really could have meaning for chris, just cause its about a bird dont mean its not important. rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:25:29 -0600 From: Kathie and David Subject: Re: Interpretations Bill wrote: > For those of you who have been doing soundgarden interpretations longer > than I.... correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't symbolism be somewhat out > of character for Chris? Didn't everyone think "Like Suicide" had some > deep, deep meaning before reading the truth? Actually I think some people have taken what Chris said about "Like Suicide" too literally. Didn't he say something about it being *inspired* by the bird incident? If you take the song in its entirety its really more of an allegory than a literal description of Chris killing a bird. If it were, then where would the line "love's like suicide" come from? I doubt he *loved* the bird. And how about: "Safe outside my gilded cage With an ounce of pain I wield a ton or rage Just like suicide" Those are obviously very personal words and feelings, about HIM, not about the bird For me finding out about Chris and the bird made me appreciate this song even more because my first thought was "how brilliant, to be able to take that experience and make it into such a beautiful, deeply meaningful song." I agree with those of you who say most, if not all, of Chris' writing is very symbolic. I think you need to look at the whole song, not just lyrics out of context, to see the symbolism. And as we all agree, the symbolism will mean something different to us all. (Isn't that what symbolism is all about?) I can understand Bill's desire to know exactly what inspires Chris (I'd like to know that too) but his music is so emotional that I can't help but interpret it in personal ways. For me, "Like Suicide" is an allegory for the difficulties and anguish inherent in being in love. Kathie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:29:26 -0600 From: Kathie and David Subject: Re: Soundgarden Anthems Ozzy asks: > Well when Soundgarden > gets heavy rotation in the years to come on all the classic rock stations, > what will be percieved as their anthem? The obvious answer of course is > "Black Hole Sun", but I was wondering if anyone had a differing opinion. I don't think it will be "Black Hole Sun" because I don't think it is indicative enough of their sound to be their *anthem*. I would go with "Outshined" Kathie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 22:35:35 -0600 From: Vasant Ramamurthy Subject: Matt Got Married I found this on All-Star news: >Ex-Soundgarden drummer Matt Cameron got hitched on Saturday (Oct. 25) to his >longtime girlfriend April in Seattle. Members of Eleven (who have worked on a >few songs with ex-Soundgarden singer Chris Cornell recently) were in >attendance... All I can say is, God bless that man. Vasant ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 29 Oct 1997 to 30 Oct 1997 ************************************************