Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 02:00:13 -0400 Subject: SOMMS Digest - 19 Oct 1997 to 20 Oct 1997 There are 9 messages totalling 569 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Opening Bands (4) 2. interpretations 3. enough.. :( 4. get your heart off of the shelf... 5. Opening Bands and Cold Bitch 6. Ave Maria To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 23:55:02 +1000 From: Ruth Emsden Subject: Re: Opening Bands >I was sittin around listening to Tad yesterday when I started to take a >journey into the musical tastes of our boys in the Garden. I was curious >what you all thought about the opening bands they have chosen. So far the >only ones I have actually dug were Monster Magnet and Tad. Tenderloin had an >awesome drummer, but I can't get the picture of the singer pulling the >harmonica from his butt outta my head, so they're kinda in limbo on my list. > I also dig Swervedriver to an extent. Anybody else got any comments on >opening bands they dug or maybe some insight as to why SG might have chosen >some of 'em? ive only seen sg play live once, and that was on a joint bill with 'you am i' and with 'the living end' as the support band. you am i is one of my fav bands, and i know theyve been the support band for sg previously. i havent heard much of the living end but i quite liked them live. the concert im referring to is the one at festival hall in january this year. any other melbourne sommsters like to comment about what they thought? ruth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:35:21 -0400 From: Catherine Veit Subject: Re: Opening Bands everyone has failed to mention REV. HORTON HEAT as one of the best openers...so i guess i have to complete the job. they're by far the best opening band i've seen w/ sg..... and now, since they have disbanded, rev. will remain in 1st place position..... if i remember correctly they were only w/ sg on the west coast towards the end of the tour... i cry for the east coast who missed out...but then again u had TAD, did you not? which means that you must have had it10 times better than i could have ever dreamed pond was such a disapointment......i've never heard a band suck so hard...hey, they even admitted it! rocket was much better, but after an act like pond, a few empty cans and a stick would have been an improvement. i saw that pic. of day's....i'm puzzled, he doesn't look anything like chris, what are you thinking!! -cats4kim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 02:31:54 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: interpretations I have never thought of Drawing Flies as being about anything other than sitting there on my own knowing I am supposed to be accomplishing something and I'm not. I've been in that place a lot and that song just says it all, the frustration, the guilt, and the not really giving a damn but knowing you're supposed to. Now, if you want to think in sexual terms, there's a lot to work with in Tighter and Tigher. Or how about the first 3 lines of No Attention? "I've got war on my mind blood on my hands and love on my head. So open your hands open your mouth..." Okay, okay. I'll stop. As for Rocket From the Crypt being original, I thought they were like a cheap imitation of the Fleshtones. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 00:13:56 PDT From: The Koggle Subject: enough.. :( *sigh* okay i'm well and truly sick of the crap going on 'behind closed doors' here.. so what if an email is private, it doesn't mean you can be rude to someone and get away with it.. maybe some of you can relate to this.. it's not totally soundgarden related but it matters to the list i think.. the so-called list thug sent me an abusive mail and i don't think any of us need to put up with it anymore.. >Blah blah blah, you make me sick. First of all, your the pathetic *LOSER* who >thought she was subject to the rules set in my post to begin with... anyone >with half a brain knows that Seth makes the rules. I just made people think >twice because things were getting out of hand. well umm see, why would you post the 'rules' if you know you have no power on the list? you apparently believe you have some authority since you call yourself the list Thug etc etc.. so lose the title.. lose the attitude.. and let this list run as it has been.. as i recall things were fine before the "rules rules rules" post.. we didn't need to be put back in place.. i'm sure if we needed to, seth would have done it.. it's HIS job you know.. his list.. not yours, aaron.. and at least i have half a brain...... > I made some valid points and >threw in some nonesense for good measure. And in my last letter, I made no >threats as to what I was going to do or have Seth do to you. What I said goes >for everyone including me. > To be completely honest, I only threw in the "no smiley" rule because people kept >complaining about you, to me. I never read your posts, I deleted them with >about 99.9% of the shit that gets tossed up there. So, when you got all up in >arms about using smiley's, quite a few people had a good laugh at your>expense. well why don't you put a smiley in to show others you're joking.. kinda ironic, huh?.. it seemed that you were serious and i'm sure many others thought you were serious about the whole frowngarden thing.. and we all laughed at YOU.. and it's not like i run around telling everyone to smile.. geez maybe.. just maybe.. i was having a joke? well if it goes for everyone, why did you post the rules.. that's kinda a useless post and wasn't that one of the rules no-nos? and if people complain about me, why don't they just fucking tell me? not 'run to you' and whine about me.. well it's obvious you read my posts isn't it.. if you can reply to them and make comments about them.. and why the fuck do i care if people laugh at me? it's not like people matter to me if they make fun of me.. i'm on this list for the info, and the nice people i've met.. not the other people on here like you.. >And as for your running to Seth crying, don't. If you have a problem with >what I say to you, take up your complaint with me you stupid whore. He has >enough to deal with without your nonesense as well. He told me what he was >going to say to you and a few others regarding the rules post before you saw >it. well it's nice to know you're up close to seth's ass.. how's the weather down there.. well it really doesn't matter how tight you are with the list admin you still can't go off at everyone and anyone.. and i am not stupid, and nor am i a whore.. my sex life is personal and not even related.. that was a very cheap shot and it notes your intelligence.. and my complaints about the list need to go to no one BUT seth.. he needs to know if we're unhappy or whatever.. nothing would get done if i just complained to friends.. i guess i'm just smart.. or so i thought, anyway > I'll have you know I got twice as many "thank you's" as flames, >which did >come as unexpected. I was totally prepared for idiots such as yourself to >think they were being persecuted and some sort >of nonesense like that. hmm see? you expected flames.. why would you do that? write to the list in the expectation of flames??? that kind of behaviour is dumb.. and not needed on the list.. and hey if i'm the idiot, why do you keep spelling nonsense wrong.. hehehe ><who won't give up>> > >Consider it started bitch. >Thug > no.. consider it nothing.. if you continue with this kind of shit i have no choice but to leave the list or something else, do i... i don't wish to put up with this kind of thing anymore.. it's not enjoyable and i don't think i've really deserved it.. >P.S. Your more hated than you think... > oh really.. well attention list.. if you hate me, mail me and tell me.. don't run to this guy cos what would that do anyway? it's gonna be kinda heartbreaking to get mail saying that people hate me but i guess if you do, you do.. i kinda have strong feelings for this list.. but i guess i can't carry on the way i am now.. if this is like.. goodbye so be it.. i don't really want to leave, but if i'm not wanted, i'm not wanted and i have no choice.. :'( sorry if i've bugged anyone at some point or another.. i've only had good intentions.. maybe i'm just not understood.. i suppose i'll keep in contact w/ the sommsters i am now.. especially lee.. who is NOT my damn loverboy, Aaron.. he's a good friend and maybe you're jealous of my friendship with a fellow sommster.. a cool one at that... i don't know.. :'( - a very sad koggle - ps. it makes me feel a bit better to say i found the hands all over 7" single with big bottom on it today.. *half smile* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:15:26 +1000 From: justin nicholls Subject: get your heart off of the shelf... let me introduce you to a friend of mine, this week's song of the week. sorry for the delay. I hope you smile. it was a cold, windy and largely overcast day in 1992 when I made my first ever soundgarden purchase, that of _badmotorfinger_, a disc accompanied by that holy artifact we all crave or cherish - somms. for weeks I had watched it on the wall of rocking horse record store, wondering whether it would be worth my hard earned dollars, feverishly calculating the number of cars and dinner plates that would need to be washed. yes, I had heard the record, and it had sounded pretty good. but at that point in my life my musical tastes leveled off somewhere near guns n' roses and aerosmith, great music for its time, but lacking that certain depth of character that I now look for in music. because of this I was unsure; soundgarden were an unknown quantity. I didn't really know them and they didn't know me. nevertheless, I took the leap of faith that chilly day and handed twenty eight dollars to the nice man behind the counter, tucking my own piece of history carefully into my school bag. I walked a couple of blocks, trailing after my friends who were in search of the latest x-men comic, unaware that I carried something far more interesting than anything we would ever find in a comic store. I sat down outside the greater union cinema on elizabeth street, calling to my friends that I would catch up soon, needing to see it again. I pored over the cover, the song titles, the cool little flip tray, everything. my friends were all but forgotten for now. a weird anticipation was growing within me, within my bones. few things had ever affected me like this before, but it felt good. to hell with blood and oxygen. awe and trepidation now coursed through my veins. a life altering day? I think so. but forgive an old man for reminiscing. more pertinent to this post is my second soundgarden purchase, that of the 'outshined' cassette single. for one reason or another I was stuck in town on a sunday by myself with nothing to do, and wandered past rocking horse. to cut a long and boring story short, the single was there, it was two dollars, I had two dollars in my pocket, the single was mine. I think it may have been the first non-album release I had ever bought, soundgarden or otherwise. but no matter, the cover had a picture of chris with a topknot, and so I couldn't resist. most important to you and I now, dear reader, here in 1997, was the song backing 'outshined' - 'cold bitch', this month's song of the week. to my ears, 'cold bitch' *is* soundgarden. this is what they sound like in my dreams, this is what they are, no doubt about it. if asked which of their songs best represents their sound, their tone, their very essence, this would be one of the first to come to mind. I'm not sure what it is exactly, but 'cold bitch' just shakes my booty down to the ground. it is the rust in the cage, the burden in your hand (sorry for the sentence. it is 'face pollution', 'kingdom of come' and 'fresh tendrils' all rolled into one. I'm saddened by the fact that it was never included on _badmotorfinger_, but I'll speak more on that later. on to the song. 'cold bitch' begins softly, but quickly changes shape, chris' howl in the right channel growing louder as the guitar fades in and warms up, like a jet engine dramatically roaring to life. the lumbering riff is in place early, cemented in firmly, so you can't escape. guitars are split to the extreme right and left channels, one for kim and one for chris, both exactly in step with the other. I absolutely love this melody, so ominous, yet lithe enough to creep up your spine in the middle of the night. at .23 chris lets loose another stratospheric moan, like some tortured nightbeast, waiting for you to step from the safety of the moonlight and into its jaws. a truly compelling introduction, similar to but far shorter than that of 'searching with my good eye closed'. on your breast I might lay my crowded head in your light I might bathe in cold burnt sweat in your mouth I might feel the serpents kiss in your womb I might swim in foetal bliss chris' vocals begin at .36, in full flight from the get-go. this couldn't possibly be the first vocal take; I refuse to believe that any person on the face of the planet could jump straight into that first verse as perfectly as chris does. there is a small amount of reverb on his voice, but not enough to make much of a difference on the songs surface. I would have to argue that this vocal performance may be the best I've heard, studio or live, soundgarden or no. there are things here that, if it wasn't chris performing them, would just defy imagination. lungs of god, indeed. the verse guitar melody is a continuation of what was played during the intro, focused yet dynamic. ben's bass sound is incredibly tight, mixed faultlessly with the rhythm and lead guitar tracks. in some places it is almost as though he has no voice at all, but no matter, you know that it is his four strings that are providing the ballast the song needs to breathe. the guitars alternately growl and corkscrew down, a weird sort of shamble that is continuously shifting, but still somehow sounds driven, like it has a mad professor-like purpose. by now matt has also warmed to the task, executing a number of jaw-dropping rolls, not long 'like suicide'-type rolls, but tight, two or three stroke fills that smack of total economy of motion and total knowledge of your heart and soul. please also take note of the mumbling in the left channel (1.14) and grumbling tangled in the middle (1.29). perhaps there is a ode to santa in there somewhere, too... but in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze the move from verse to chorus is simple, heralded by nothing in particular and as smooth as hell for the lack of it. the guitar melody is different now, perhaps a little more minimalist, definitely more haunting. matt moves from hi-hat to ride cymbal; there is a tom stroke at about 1.52 that is just perfect. chris' vocals come down a notch, but are no less powerful; the doubling of "heart" makes it sound like he's singing from the bottom of a chasm. there is the sound of a telephone ringing at 1.39 somewhere in the left channel (tell me I'm wrong), probably someone calling to complain about the noise. chris growls at the distraction, intones "freeze" better than anyone on the planet and then slides back into the verse, giving another small growl at 2.01 for good measure. in your eyes I might be your saving grace in your head I might say it through your eyes in your lungs I might stare between you again, that foreboding guitar riff. don't let it go, boys, it just might slither away. kim and ben are still incredibly tight at this point, feeding off each other, filling the room with that creepy atmosphere you've come to love. it occurs to me that chris may not play a guitar track on 'cold bitch', the phrasing in the left and right sounds just too much the same to be both kim and chris. chris probably plays a rhythm track somewhere in there, but I'm not good enough to pluck it out for you. but no matter, we can both hear the guitar, and it is good, regardless of who is playing it. the vocals are again through the roof, hurtling past every dark cloud in the sky, while matt continues to cajole each and every nonpareil beat out of his kit. probably the coolest element of this section is the stop-start percussion thing that runs from 2.09 to 2.13, as I don't think it was ever reproduced on any other soundgarden song and sounds majorly cool on it's own merit. but in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze back to the ride cymbal and freezing temperatures, and the band manages to nail it again. you would think they'd become weary of the cold sooner or later. matt's bass drum sits on top of ben's bass, chris' voice fits snugly with kim's six-string ministrations. by now, if I were matt's snare, I would be quaking in my boots. the attack, the viciousness of each beat, is draining. from the sound of it, every stroke should be busting a drumhead, not just from the power of his arm, but the sheer grace and sweetness of the stroke. pure heaven, if you ask me. this particular chorus plays out a little, providing the carriage to the bridge... I would feed your heart take a vow of silence and put your love out of business the mood of the song shifts here. not the melody, mind you, but the mood and temperament. it becomes somewhat quieter, almost a lullaby in comparison to the unearthly chorus and verse sections. the guitar parts are subdued, the drums precise; the guitars almost sound like a string section at 3.22, 3.28, 3.34 and 3.40. chris' vocals are certainly different in tone, delivering the first two lines with a gentleness not bestowed upon the previous lyrics. but no, the song hasn't stopped persuing you yet, it was just playing with you, lulling you into a false sense of security. ha ha. chris hurtles into the final line, casting away any thought of mercy and goes for your throat, shattering yet more panes of glass. and as cool as it sounds, this is certainly not the end of the assault. as chris hits the word out, kim begins his solo. I've mentioned in a earlier post how this song was somewhat ahead of it's time, in terms of soundgarden and their musical scribings/arrangements. it wasn't until _superunknown_ that the band experimented more boldy with vocals during the lead break, and I'm fairly certain this is the first instance of it put to recording. it sounds damn near perfect here, though, so their first attempt can certainly be considered a resounding success. the lead break itself is a good one, fusing chaos, a blues-type feel and kim's unique tone together delightfully. the man must have some dextrous fingers. not many effects or electronic assistance, just that warm, reliable sound you expect from kim thayil on a soundgarden record. what also makes this musical interlude so alluring is the potent drums of sir matt, and the way they work amongst kim's well-chosen notes. I'm sure you understand the dynamic that exists between matt and ben, their penchant for improvisation and all that. well, just as significant is the relationship that existed between kim and matt, how much kim respected matt's thoughts, especially in regards to his guitar sound and parts. this section of the song probably reflects that respect more accurately than any other in soundgarden's catalogue. can you hear, do you understand, how perfectly kim's lead and matt's kit correspond here? I personally have trouble grasping it. the creative process at work amazes me, that Kim would lay down a rough progression, matt would put down the final drum take, and then Kim would come back and answer with a solo that seems...it all just mingles so flawlessly. that first run is just so perfect, I wish I had the words to describe it. definitely one of my all-time favourite pieces of music by any band. but in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze in your heart I'd freeze and then the come down (at least for me). the final chorus lacks some of the venom the earlier instalments, but that's okay, because by now you need to catch your breath. being alternately hunted, pummeled and hypnotised for five minutes would take anyone's breath away, if you ask me. the outro is poised, and lets you down gradually, twisting away quietly until the song moves off in pursuit of other prey. I guess my only problem with 'cold bitch' is that it wasn't included on _badmotorfinger_. I can't really think of a valid reason for the song not being on there. it was recorded during the same sessions as the rest of the record, so the timing is right. frankly, it sounds better produced than some of the other songs on the album, and is in some cases a better song all round. I also think that it would have added another dimension, that creepy dimension that searching only plays at, to the record. finally, I read somewhere that ben really liked the song, and wanted to see it on there, a vote I would have seconded were *I* on the committee ;) on the other hand, perhaps if songs like 'cold bitch', 'down undershoe' and 'hiv baby' were included on _badmotorfinger_, especially at the expense of other songs, it would have been a much different album (good or bad thing? that's purely hypothetical). there may have also been problems with sequencing, or the song sounding a little too much like something else on there (not something I would readily agree with). I suppose I'm just disappointed that 'cold bitch' was relegated to the status of a b-side, when it was, imho, deserving of the same praise and same billing as songs like 'slaves and bulldozers'. surely the record could have been thirteen tracks instead of twelve, eh guys? final grade for the song is an 'a'; it is without a doubt one of my favourite soundgarden songs in the whole world, if not the universe. I only wish I had the words to spell it out for you. hopefully the above text gave you some idea. btw, a '+' would have been automatically awarded if it was nestled in between 'room a thousand years wide' and 'mind riot' . the next sotw will be on time, and will uncover some hidden truths about that campfire favourite, 'nazi driver'. see you then. justin -------------- sometimes I wish I had a heart made of steel sometimes I wish I couldn't feel... - words by vernon reid ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:59:24 -0400 From: Alissa Corsi Subject: Re: Opening Bands In a message dated 97-10-19 00:28:02 EDT, you write: << All, I'm not much akin to all of our opening acts, but I can tell you, that Jeff Buckley had one beautiful voice. Of all the acts opening for Soundgarden that I have heard of, he is the one act I definitely wouldn't be wishing offstage. >> Jeff Buckley is one of the most talented and beautiful people that has ever graced this earth and if I had gotten to Soundgarden, it would be a dream come true to see him open. Anyone that saw that combo should definitely consider themselves lucky! "Remember I love you, love you" love, lissa =) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:26:43 +0100 From: James McCarthy Subject: Re: Opening Bands Hi, When I saw SG in October of last year at Brixton Academy, London, the opening bands were Eleven and Moby, in that order. Eleven, who we are all familiar with by now, were good, so good in fact that my brother, who I went to see SG with, now has all their albums in his CD collection, but I didn't take such a great liking to them. But nevertheless, they were entertaining. Moby had one good song, "That's when I reach for my revolver". But the rest of the songs were really crap. The best bit was when he introduced one song with "This is a song I wrote when I was 15". Well, it certainly showed :). I don't know if these were the same opening bands for the rest of the European Tour, anyone know?? James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:45:39 -0500 From: Wyn Subject: Opening Bands and Cold Bitch At 11:37 AM 18/10/97 -0400, Scott Hammer wrote: >I was curious what you all thought about the opening bands they have chosen. Well when I saw SG they were supported by You Am I and Turtlebox. Now You Am I, I can understand why they were picked even though they are really a sort of Mod Pop band (sort of the Who or Easybeats revival, which is a good thing), which isn't really as heavy as Soundgarden but their drummer, Russel Hopkins(spl?) is someone who is definitly up their in the bracket with Matt as drummers go. The whole band also have a similar fusion and tight sound between the members that Soundgarden also has, although I haven't been as impressed by their recent album, they still have that tight sound. Sorry for that little advertisement for You Am I. > Sun, 19 Oct 1997 Justin Nicholls wrote: >to my ears, 'cold bitch' *is* soundgarden. Ahh... Cold Bitch now I really had never thought of this song before in this light a synthesis of all their other work previous and after the date of this song, all elements formed together in one song. A realy good post almost like a Paul Kelly song with the street and place references, yep know the Rocking Horse well too... Bronwyn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:22:53 -0400 From: Jenny Grover Subject: Ave Maria Alright, since so many of you have asked what I think of Ave Maria, here it is. Since I live in the boonies I had to special order it and I just got it late Friday, so I don't know if it will grow on me or not at this point. But here is my honest and objective as possible opinion. I have always liked this song, but I don't like this arrangement. Chris's voice is beautiful and quite capable, though a little more variety over the course of the song would have been nice. There is a fine line between interesting and irritating, and frankly I find the instrumentation irritating, especially the drums. They sound like a Salvation Army band. I read the liner notes for something that would justify this particular organ sound (a rare antique instrument or something special like that), but found nothing to tell me it is anything more than an electronic keyboard whose tonality and dynamics just don't fit the song. Despite the beauty and power of Chris's vocals I was mentally fighting the other stuff to concentrate on them. This should have been mixed in such a way that he is not competing so heavily with the instrumentation. All that being said, I wouldn't say I dislike the piece, I just think it could have been done a lot better. Over all it sounds a bit too heavy and clunky for me. Jen ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 19 Oct 1997 to 20 Oct 1997 ************************************************