Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 02:17:13 -0400 Subject: SOMMS Digest - 12 May 1997 to 13 May 1997 There are 28 messages totalling 1178 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Superunknown song (4) 2. Supermainstream/Stolen Prayers 3. for your eyes only...... 4. BUTOW-Single 5. here we are, crying in the night... 6. A few simple questions...=) 7. the whole DOTU/SU/BMF discussion... 8. hello from big joe 9. as gutsy as they come - SU & DOTU (2) 10. is there any french sommsters here ? 11. The US/BMW discussion 12. my dog's taste in music 13. su 14. Re[2]: Superunknown song 15. Down Under on the Upside.. (3) 16. superunknown 17. here we are, crying in the night (part 2)... 18. Possible Get-Back-Together? 19. Las Vegas 20. Song of the Week and first impressions of SU 21. Sg unplugged on rage? What? Down under on the upside 22. never far from being wrong... To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 00:25:39 PDT From: "Koggle :)" Subject: Re: Superunknown song >> i was reading on seth's site, and it said that there was a 16th song on the >>international version of superunkown.... what was it? thanks... >I believe it was "She Likes Surprises." I didn't know it was an >international version though. I thought it was just an Australian deal like >Down Under On The Upside. Yup, it's She Likes Surprises (one of the funniest SG songs out.. funny in a weird way.. makes me happy..) and it's not just on the Australian SU, i think it's all non-US releases.. What is the difference with Down Under On the Upside compared to the standard DOTU? Koggle --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 03:34:34 -0400 From: Caryn Rose Subject: Re: Superunknown song At 12:25 AM 5/12/97 PDT, Koggle :) wrote: >What is the difference with Down Under On the Upside compared to the standard >DOTU? i would remind EVERYONE that the answer to EVERY SINGLE QUESTION that has been asked her in the past week is available in some form on seth's web page (http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/) and if you've got a hotmail account, you've got web access. so don't try that excuse. --caryn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 00:48:14 PDT From: "Koggle :)" Subject: Re: Superunknown song >i would remind EVERYONE that the answer to EVERY SINGLE QUESTION that has >been asked her in the past week is available in some form on seth's web >page (http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/) > >and if you've got a hotmail account, you've got web access. so don't try >that excuse. caryn, i'm sure that seth's page could answer every question on this list.. i was asking a real life human, perhaps looking for an opinion about it.. but if i'm going to get harrassed everytime i make a comment i don't think i'll bother.. i thought this mailing list would be cool.. I'd get to 'talk' with other soundgarden fans and get their opinions, but it isn't cool to have such negativity when someone's attempting to make some imput.. --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:49:06 +1000 From: Greg Dunbar Subject: Supermainstream/Stolen Prayers If anyone can find these and already has a copy, then I'd be interested if they could get it for me? (I'll pay ya for it of course) I've been patiently looking for a while but they're just nowhere!!!! AND IT'S DRIVING ME INSANE! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Come on you wimp, paddle on to "THE SEAS OF CHEEZCAKE" http://www.cbl.com.au/~greg - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:57:30 EST From: Cornholio Subject: Re: for your eyes only...... > Date sent: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:02:27 -0400 > Send reply to: Moonsta693@AOL.COM > From: Nadia Standard > Subject: for your eyes only...... > To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Hello my fellow pupils. > > I've got a question for all of you. I'm looking for Homicidal Suicidal, Toy > Box, HIV Baby, and the Moby Mix of Dusty. Anyone know what imports they are > on? OR could anyone get me a copy of them? Homicidal Suicidal is on the UK version of Outshined. Toy Box is on the Flower EP. Moby Mix of Dusty is on the BUTOW single. > Tomorrow. 1 month already. Can you believe it? Time moves so damn fast. > Don't turn your back now, the one year aniversary will be here soon enough. > Burn a candle for the legacy. > > See ya later family....until then....Keep on foppin' and rockin' > the original pretty noose > Cheers Dave SOUNDGARDEN SOUNDGARDEN SOUNDGARDEN /////////////// ////////////// //// //// //////// //// //////// //////// //// //////// //// //// ////////////// /////////////// SOUNDGARDEN SOUNDGARDEN SOUNDGARDEN "I love ya baby!"--665 by Soundgarden (reversed) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:40:59 +0100 From: Michael Perricone Subject: BUTOW-Single Salute, Two weeks ago I buyed the BUTOW-single, which comes as a double-set with a nice band-poster from DOTU in it and two singles: The first CD contains BUTOW and a Dusty-Remix by Moby, which I realy like (it's kind of hippnotic). The second single contains BUTOW again, 1990 (!) live-versions of Gun and Get On The Snake and a new track called A Splice Of Spacejam (it's an instrumental song, sounds a little bit like Jerry Garcias Finger). I've never read about this single-set on the list, so I tought, I write this down. The single-set was maybe only released in Europe by A&M UK. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:21:28 +1000 From: tendrils Subject: Re: here we are, crying in the night... > another week, another song. lucky number four is 'head down'. I .... *that* was excellent. bravo. I also feel that Head Down is one of Sg's greatest. I hope you do 'fresh tendrils'.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:51:05 -0400 From: Rebekah Henderson Subject: Re: Superunknown song Down Under On The Upside is the standard DOTU plus some extra songs. I don't know what they are or how many right off hand. Rebekah At 12:25 AM 5/12/97 PDT, you wrote: >>> i was reading on seth's site, and it said that there was a 16th song on the >>>international version of superunkown.... what was it? thanks... > >>I believe it was "She Likes Surprises." I didn't know it was an >>international version though. I thought it was just an Australian deal like >>Down Under On The Upside. > >Yup, it's She Likes Surprises (one of the funniest SG songs out.. funny in a >weird way.. makes me happy..) and it's not just on the Australian SU, i think >it's all non-US releases.. > >What is the difference with Down Under On the Upside compared to the standard >DOTU? > >Koggle > > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >--------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:38:46 -0400 From: Leslie Campbell Subject: A few simple questions...=) Hey y'all! I have some questions I'd like to have answered, if anyone would be so kind as to help me out. I have this small box set called Supermotorfinger, which contains SU and BMF packaged together. I believe it was distributed in Australia..that's what it says on the bottom of the box. Well, lucky me, for some CRAZY reason the owner of the music store where I work marked one copy down to $10.88 (it normally goes for about $30-something!!), so of course I snapped it up just to have it for my collection. ANYWAY...(get to the point Les!)...I'm gonna leave it sealed, but I was wondering if anyone knew if the SU disc in that box has She Likes Surprises on it? Just curious... Also, I have SU on clear vinyl, and Geoff told me that he thinks it might be the rarest (clear), but he wasn't sure. Does anyone know? Okay, that's all for now. Thanks! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 09:38:01 -0700 From: Tiffany Saint Subject: Re: the whole DOTU/SU/BMF discussion... On Sat, 10 May 1997, Martin Ander wrote: > Among fans there seems to be a very strong urge to prove that you're > a "real" fan by saying: "I like their earlier work the best", like you > want to prove that you were in it from the beginning. If I meet someone > that listens to DOTU and think it rocks, but hasn't heard any of > Soundgarden's earlier work (except for BHS of course...), in my opinion > he's just as much a fan as the guy listening to Screaming Life, saying: > "Their late albums are *SO* over-hyped, fucking media.......". > Hell, I could be wrong. What if you met someone that listens to DOTU and SHE hasn't heard the earlier work? Is she just as much a fan? Just curious. I like songs off every SG release I've heard, but I like badmotorfinger best. The earlier stuff is fun but not as interesting (to me) lyrically, and SU and DOTU are less consistantly pleasing (to me) musically. Tiffany ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:13:35 -0400 From: "Joseph A. Burnett" Subject: hello from big joe >I was listening to some cd's the other day and I threw in my Pearl Jam >Jeremy single. I originally picked it up on clearance for $4 to get the >b-side Yellow Ledbetter. I finally listened to the other b-side - >Footsteps. It has a remarkable simiilarity to Times of Trouble by Temple >of the Dog. I know that the guitarists are the same so nobody's pulling a >Silverchair ;-), but I was wondering why the guitar part was used in both >songs. I know there are some PJ buffs on the list that would know, so post >to the list if you know anything about the 2 songs. > >J Did we ever decide which came first, TOT or Footsteps? I know this topic has come up before on the list......I know Chris wrote TOT.....it was for his roommate Andy Wood, MLB, blah blah......the riffs probably used in both songs 'cause it's a kick ass riff......I love both versions.......anyway, long time, no post for me.....I've been busy, and been kinda just observing various reactions, etc...i've yet to have a night for myself so i can pop in all my albums and just think shit over....i still haven't listened to sg at all since the 9th, because i'm waiting for a night to really sit down with the issue, and decide what my feelings are. nonetheless, matt's letter was great, and the rolling stone article was ok, i was kinda pissed that mtv didn't even have enough knowledge of the band to mention badmotorfinger when the story was initially on mtv news. anyway, this is my first real chance to just babble a little bit, aside from the initial reaction i had, which was denial. and to touch base indirectly with some of you guys, who i've missed corresponding with. toni, ben, whoever, write soon. BIg JOe ps. I heard pearl jam's not touring this summer now....caryn--confirm/deny? --------O But it all makes such Sense to me i need room to breathe I work for the goals that i set Wasted time it weighs on my mind You can bet I can't wait one minute more -----CIV ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 03:01:49 -0700 From: jaxgrrl Subject: as gutsy as they come - SU & DOTU hello all... well, it certainly has been a long time since i last posted... i've been very busy and really haven't felt up to it. but i couldn't keep my mouth shut for long. :-) so... i know SU has been the prevailing topic of conversation lately... and i just want say to anyone who thinks SU or DOTU are "weak" or "less gutsy" than any of Sg's previous albums, of course that's your opinion, but i strongly disagree. imo, tho i love BMF and have derived much listening pleasure and empowerment from it, SU and DOTU are far more gutsty, brave and adventurous, for many different reasons. i don't like to try and categorize music (as alternative, metal, whatever) b/c the lines between what's considered punk, metal, etc. are often blurred, and much of today's music simply *can't* be categorized. but BMF does have a very heavy feel to it, it's for the most part a gritty, straight forward effort. Sg garnered a substantial following b/c of BMF, and i believe that SU was an equally gutsy effort, not only b/c of it's songs, but b/c there was no certainty that Sg's BMF audience would go for it. of course, they released "spoonman" first, which i think is one of the songs off SU that most resembles many of the songs off BMF, and it may be for this reason, along w/ the fact that Sg's audience is extremely loyal and devoted, that SU debuted at # 1. but including expermintal, atypical (at that point) songs like "head down", "half" and "4th of july" was somewhat of a risk - they couldn't be sure that the majority of their audience would appreciate those songs, but of course, they didn't care - and it paid off, not only for them but for us. then, following the extremely commercially successful SU up w/ the highly experimental DOTU was the most courageous move of all. and although DOTU may not have been quite as commercially successful as SU, it was every bit as successful artistically, maybe even more. i can't say enough about this beautiful album - it's everything i could ever want. b/c SU and DOTU are more melodic and experimental than hard and heavy does not make them weak, and anyone who says so is just being ignorant. sorry for the long post - i've been away for a while. :) that's all - for now. ciao... ~Lorraine "hard headed fuck you all, just add it up to the hot rod death toll!" Here's Johnny! A page devoted to the most amazing actor to ever walk the earth... coming this Summer, stay tuned for updates ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 21:38:50 +0200 From: Nicolas Subject: is there any french sommsters here ? Ceci est un message avec plusieurs parties au format MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_01B901DF.4C8F6500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, IF YOU ARE NOT FRENCH, DON'T READ THIS ... In the digest of may 9th, I've seen a message of dusty grrl asking if there were any sommsters in Las Vagas so I thought it was a good idea to meat people who like the same music as me, and I was wondering if there were any sommsters from Paris France, where I live ? I am truly sorry to waste the time of the ones who don't give a f--k abo ut what I said but I need to know...Thanks... Sincerely, nicolas. ------=_NextPart_000_01B901DF.4C8F6500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PC9oZWFkPjxCT0RZIGJnY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPjxwPjxmb250IHNpemU9 MiBjb2xvcj0iIzAwMDAwMCIgZmFjZT0iQXJpYWwiPkhpIGFsbCw8YnI+PGJyPiYjMDA5O0lGIFlP VSBBUkUgTk9UIEZSRU5DSCwgRE9OJ1QgUkVBRCBUSElTIC4uLjxicj48YnI+JiMwMDk7SW4gdGhl IGRpZ2VzdCBvZiBtYXkgOXRoLCBJJ3ZlIHNlZW4gYSBtZXNzYWdlIG9mIGR1c3R5IGdycmwgYXNr aW5nIGlmIHRoZXJlIHdlcmUgYW55IHNvbW1zdGVycyBpbiBMYXMgVmFnYXMgc28gSSB0aG91Z2h0 IGl0IHdhcyBhIGdvb2QgaWRlYSB0byBtZWF0IHBlb3BsZSB3aG8gbGlrZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBtdXNp YyBhcyBtZSwgYW5kIEkgd2FzIHdvbmRlcmluZyBpZiB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIGFueSBzb21tc3RlcnMg ZnJvbSBQYXJpcyBGcmFuY2UsIHdoZXJlIEkgbGl2ZSA/PGJyPiYjMDA5O0kgYW0gdHJ1bHkgc29y cnkgdG8gd2FzdGUgdGhlIHRpbWUgb2YgdGhlIG9uZXMgd2hvIGRvbid0IGdpdmUgYSBmLS1rIGFi b3V0IHdoYXQgSSBzYWlkIGJ1dCBJIG5lZWQgdG8ga25vdy4uLlRoYW5rcy4uLjxicj48YnI+JiMw MDk7JiMwMDk7U2luY2VyZWx5LCBuaWNvbGFzLjxicj48YnI+PC9wPg0KPC9mb250PjwvYm9keT48 L2h0bWw+ ------=_NextPart_000_01B901DF.4C8F6500-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 15:43:00 PDT From: "Harris, Court V." Subject: Re: The US/BMW discussion I don't know what the fuck happened to my message. I think that when it went through the firewall at my office, it got spellchecked or something stupid. ANYWAY, I sure as fuck didn't write SAG or FOP or BMW. Give me fucking break. Court Heres a test to see if it happened. I have the sent message, and that shit isn't on there. SG FOPP UMOK LTL BMF DOTU ---------- From: Rebekah Henderson To: Harris, Court V. Cc: somms Subject: Re: The US/BMW discussion Date: Friday, May 09, 1997 6:17PM SAG???? Who is SAG???? Soundgarden is SG. BMW??? BMW is a car. BMF is Badmotorfinger. It's not Fop, it's Fopp. It's not LL. It's LTL (Louder Than Love) Who is Cornea????? Is that a woman?? Their lead singer is Chris Cornell. Hire?? As in employment??? Their ex-bassist is Hiro Yamamoto. AMOK?? As in someone is running amok??? I think you mean UMOK (Ultramega OK). US??? As in the United States??? They have an album called Superunknown (SU). Are you sure you're on the right mailing list??? I am completely and thoroughly baffled by your post. Rebekah At 02:48 PM 5/9/97 PDT, you wrote: >I am really enjoying the discussions about the records that opened our eyes >to SAG... > >I started listening to SAG when a friend brought over a copy of what I later >found out to be a bootleg of a show that SAG did in Seattle in 1989 (I don't >know where). At the time, I was into death metal and really heavy metal, so >SAG at the time was playing songs that are on Screaming Life/FOP and LL. > After my fascination with Slayer and the liked died off around junior year >in high school (1990), I snagged a beat up cassette of LL. from a friend, >and I was amazed. The heavy bass, erratic yet masterful percussion, and the >killer rives along with Cornea's velvet thunder was pretty much audio sex. >AMOK was the same. Ben's playing far outclassed Hire's, and the rest is >history. With BMW, I was hypnotized by that whole album. Slaves, >Rooms...wide and Drawing flies are my fad tracks, but the rest of the record >is incredible. I agree with the guy who said it is one of the best rock >albums ever. I think BMW defined the heavy part of the Seattle music scene >in the late 80s and early 90s, and introduced it to the rest of the country >(I am not taking anything away from the other bands from the era...) > >I just want to voice my opinion on what I consider artistic growth before I >go on. I don't think I know of one good artist who is content to simply >reproduce the works that they have "mastered," in any media. Yeah, the >corporate rockers of the last decade and the dinosaurs that won't die kept >the cookbook hits coming, but look at their fates. The live on as mere >images of buttock on MTV specials or have a budding acting career in B >movies. They weren't artists in the sense that SAG and other great bands >are/were. As individuals, maybe the guys from Poison were artists (I doubt >it?), but as a band they fucking sucked. > >Back to SAG... The transitions from the FOP/SL/AMOK sound to the LL. sound >to the BMW were marked in the music and the lyrical content. I enjoyed each >of these albums because I was able to follow the band as they matured both >musically and personally. It only made sense that the music would change as >the members changed. US was a drastic change for me from BMW, and it took a >while to adjust to it, partially because there was a 3 year lag between >albums. However, to date, US is my fad album. Like Seth said, there are >some tracks on there that are not as moving as others, but I don't believe >they were made for airily (I hope not...) 4th of July makes me unconscious >when I hear it. Who knows, I get in grooves where I only like AMOK or LL. > It'll change tomorrow... > >DOTU is a great album, but the breakup has jaded its appeal to me for awhile >I am afraid. Applebite speaks to me, and so does BUTOW. The rest of the >songs are cool, but I have a bad taste in my mouth from all of the bullshit >I have been hearing since the breakup. > >On a side note, did anyone see Hater last weekend at the Showbox? Who is >the drum tech that jumped in during the middle of the set and played? I was >waiting for the red headed guitar tech to pick up Ben's Gretsch and start >in. A good set in general. Valis was less impressive. > >If you are not at work where you are forced to use a computer on a day like >today, I pity you for not being outside in the nice weather in Seattle. > >Court > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 04:49:43 -0700 From: jaxgrrl Subject: my dog's taste in music ha! i was just reading about peoples' cats & Sg. my one dog dusty used to get all hyper & fidgety whenever i'd listen to hole - i think it was the volume - or was he trying to tell me something??? but he *does* like Sg - he ought to, he's named for one of their songs. :) ciao... ~Raine, resident x-phile, opinionated brat, and crusader against all things pc "hard headed fuck you all, just add it up to the hot rod death toll!" ~Chris Cornell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:23:59 -0400 From: Kevin Cornell Subject: su hey have you all found that you have been listening to superunknown more then usally now is it just me? my favorite song is kickstand. the songs on there are just better then when i first got the cd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:26:22 EST From: Saskia Becher Subject: Re[2]: Superunknown song Wow!!! Hey ever heard of making conversation?? I think SOMEONE needs a double espresso... Sassy >What is the difference with Down Under On the Upside compared to the standard >DOTU? i would remind EVERYONE that the answer to EVERY SINGLE QUESTION that has been asked her in the past week is available in some form on seth's web page (http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/) and if you've got a hotmail account, you've got web access. so don't try that excuse. --caryn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:41:45 PDT From: "Koggle :)" Subject: Down Under on the Upside.. hmm i checked out seth's site for the answer to my question (as nicely directed by Caryn..) but i couldn't find anything at all.. even on the DOTU page.. surely it'd be there if it was anywhere so, i guess i'll have to ask again.. does anyone know which tracks are on Down Under on the Upside and whether the cd is different or anything else? --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:54:47 -0400 From: "Steven Russell Jr." Subject: Re: Down Under on the Upside.. At 05:41 PM 05/12/97 PDT, you wrote: >hmm i checked out seth's site for the answer to my question (as nicely directed >by Caryn..) but i couldn't find anything at all.. even on the DOTU page.. surely >it'd be there if it was anywhere you didnt look hard enough. >so, i guess i'll have to ask again.. >does anyone know which tracks are on Down Under on the Upside and whether the cd >is different or anything else? Down Under On The Upside (A&M, January 13, 1997, $29/mint) 1. Jerry Garcia's Finger 2. Karaoke 3. Bleed Together 4. Birth Ritual (original demo) 5. Fell On Black Days (video version) 6. Dusty (Moby mix) Notes: This 2 CD promo compilation contains Down on the Upside and a Bonus 6 song disk. It will be released to promote the Jan/Feb '97 Soundgarden tour of Australia and New Zealand. It will be available in Australia on January 13 and New Zealand on January 17. steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 21:50:48 -0400 From: Zubin Gautam Subject: Re: as gutsy as they come - SU & DOTU In a message dated 97-05-12 16:09:57 EDT, merlin.dwc@INTERNETMCI.COM (jaxgrrl) writes: << i believe that SU was an equally gutsy effort, not only b/c of it's songs, but b/c there was no certainty that Sg's BMF audience would go for it. >> This is my first message, though I have been one of those losers who just sits and reads the digests for a few months. 1st let me make a disclaimer that SG is my favorite band, and that I think all of their albums are amazing. However, I am one of those people that think Superunknown and Down on the Upside are a little less "gutsy," if you will, than Badmotorfinger. Maybe because I take "gutsy" to also mean "not as hard" or something. However, I would have to say that even though Superunknown wasn't an album that would definitely please all fans of Badmotorfinger, it is a more "commercially viable" album. Though BMF was met with considerable commercial success, it didn't even come close to the "mainstream reception" that SU, or even DOTU received. Please note that I am not even implying that Soundgarden "sold out" with either of these albums. It's just another way to look at it. On the other hand, most bands with any "credibility" (I believe that Soundgarden is one of them) would probably be more concerned with the impressions of their fans that those of the mainstream culture. Once, again, I have managed to successfully contradict one of my own arguments. What the hell. Sorry for this rambling, useless message. Maybe I'll get the hang of these things soon. Heh heh heh. Bye. --------------------- Forwarded message: From: merlin.dwc@INTERNETMCI.COM (jaxgrrl) Reply-to: merlin.dwc@INTERNETMCI.COM (jaxgrrl) To: SOMMS@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Date: 97-05-12 16:09:57 EDT hello all... well, it certainly has been a long time since i last posted... i've been very busy and really haven't felt up to it. but i couldn't keep my mouth shut for long. :-) so... i know SU has been the prevailing topic of conversation lately... and i just want say to anyone who thinks SU or DOTU are "weak" or "less gutsy" than any of Sg's previous albums, of course that's your opinion, but i strongly disagree. imo, tho i love BMF and have derived much listening pleasure and empowerment from it, SU and DOTU are far more gutsty, brave and adventurous, for many different reasons. i don't like to try and categorize music (as alternative, metal, whatever) b/c the lines between what's considered punk, metal, etc. are often blurred, and much of today's music simply *can't* be categorized. but BMF does have a very heavy feel to it, it's for the most part a gritty, straight forward effort. Sg garnered a substantial following b/c of BMF, and i believe that SU was an equally gutsy effort, not only b/c of it's songs, but b/c there was no certainty that Sg's BMF audience would go for it. of course, they released "spoonman" first, which i think is one of the songs off SU that most resembles many of the songs off BMF, and it may be for this reason, along w/ the fact that Sg's audience is extremely loyal and devoted, that SU debuted at # 1. but including expermintal, atypical (at that point) songs like "head down", "half" and "4th of july" was somewhat of a risk - they couldn't be sure that the majority of their audience would appreciate those songs, but of course, they didn't care - and it paid off, not only for them but for us. then, following the extremely commercially successful SU up w/ the highly experimental DOTU was the most courageous move of all. and although DOTU may not have been quite as commercially successful as SU, it was every bit as successful artistically, maybe even more. i can't say enough about this beautiful album - it's everything i could ever want. b/c SU and DOTU are more melodic and experimental than hard and heavy does not make them weak, and anyone who says so is just being ignorant. sorry for the long post - i've been away for a while. :) that's all - for now. ciao... ~Lorraine "hard headed fuck you all, just add it up to the hot rod death toll!" Here's Johnny! A page devoted to the most amazing actor to ever walk the earth... coming this Summer, stay tuned for updates ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 21:52:34 -0500 From: Kathie Opon Subject: Re: superunknown I know this is an old subject now, but I was out of town for a few days and am just now able to add my .02. Vince wrote: >I had a question. This one goes out to any of the people who got into >SG >from listening to Badmotorfinger or anything previous: What were your >initial reactions to Superunknown when it first came out back in 1994? >Were you initially disappointed at how different it was compared to >their >earlier works or was it the total opposite? I first got into SG with LTL. When I first heard SU I was stunned, and not pleasantly. I had liked Spoonman, but when I listened to the whole CD I was definitely disappointed, but you know what, I don't know now if it was all because I didn't like the music or if it was a combination of that and the hype surrounding the album. I have this incredible resistance to media hype, and SU was the most hyped SG venture ever. I was used to being part of this special little group of people who knew about and loved this great band that nobody else appreciated, and although that was sometimes lonely (like when you're looking for someone to tell about how excited you are that they're coming into town or something and people look at you like Sound-who?), it was also pretty cool. I don't know if the people who joined our ranks after SU ever really experienced that feeling of living in a SG void, where you are really digging this band and no one else around you even knows who they are. Anyway, I think that may have been part of my disappointment with SU. After first hearing it I put it away and never really listened to it until I joined this list. Now I like several songs, but I still don't like it as much as DOTU or BMF. I can't understand how that RS article could talk about DOTU as if it were some inferior effort. I liked DOTU from the very first listen, in fact I was totally blown away by it. And that's saying alot since I was pretty skeptical after SU. But then what can you expect from a magazine that now represents everything it once stood up against I'm rambling now..... Kathie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:53:01 -0400 From: Rachel Makarewicz Subject: Re: Down Under on the Upside.. In a message dated 97-05-12 23:41:31 EDT, you write: << Down Under On The Upside (A&M, January 13, 1997, $29/mint) thats funny...i got my copy for $17.99.....the store stills has some...if anyone wants one email me and i'll see what i can do. rachel :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:58:32 +1000 From: justin nicholls Subject: here we are, crying in the night (part 2)... another week, another song. lucky number four is 'head down'. I hope you enjoy my rather amateurish analysis (which hopefully will also be easier for you to read than it was for me to write). please take note: this is actually the *finished* version of what I posted to the list yesterday. I guess I was on some weird auto-pilot or something... the stuff you know - track number six from my favourite soundgarden record, 'head down' runs for just over six minutes. both the music and lyrics were composed by bassist ben shepherd. the record itself (_superunknown_) was produced by michael beinhorn and soundgarden, mixed by brendan obrien, engineered by jason corsaro and assisted in both engineering and mixing by adam kasper. the bulk of the album was record at bad animals studio in seattle. from what I've read, the relationship between band and producer was a little strained after four long months in the studio, so the band elected to act on the wise advice of stone gossard and hired o'brien to mix the final product (although, I have since read that beinhorn basically declined to mix the record). additional drum and percussion tracks are credited to ben and gregg keplinger. the music - okay, I'm man enough to admit it. this song was not one of my favourites after my first hearing of _superunknown_. don't get me wrong, I didn't think it was bad. but within the context of the album 'head down' just wasn't as immediate or as striking as something like 'the day I tried to live'. maybe chris' voice was just a little too difficult to get into the first few times around. then, as I listened more, I came to regard 'head down' as one of the real "hidden" gems of _superunknown_; along with with 'fresh tendrils' and 'she likes surprises'. now I feel that 'head down' is perhaps _superunknown's_ *best* song, a song that is not only an excellent composition in it's own right but a song that really widened my perception of what soundgarden was and what they could truly achieve with their music. quite a progression, wouldn't you say? I think what I respect most about 'head down' is it's texture and sense of depth, a depth that "you can put your hand into, fish around and get something" (kim, musician 1994). while it retains an amount of the psychadelia that pervades many early soundgarden songs, 'head down' also feels very real, a texture and there-ness that I believe is missing in some of soundgarden's early work. instead of going for the throat like so many songs from previous records, ben has written a song that manages to exist within itself (meaning it is complete and untied to other soundgarden songs) but still promises more without resorting to the pure bombast of something like 'mailman'. I also admire 'head down' because of it's innate contrast; it really is unlike anything ben wrote before or after (for soundgarden, at any rate) and is similarly unlike just about anything else the band recorded over their twelve year career. it seems at odds with much of their music, yet is a vital and living part of what they were. hmmm...where I'm going with this, I don't know. it is difficult to convey what a song means to you on a personal level, not to mention the question of why. it's tough to explain the unexplainable. maybe I'll try sticking to the particulars . the introduction is somewhat offbeat (there is no break between the beginning of 'head down' and the end of 'superunknown'), but soon slides into a guitar refrain that you know well by the time the song has run its course. guitar parts are added incrementally, building a sense of anticipation and growth. once the verse riff is unveiled you understand that head down possesses a simple elegance that will entrance your ears again and again. the song's rhythm is awesome in many regards, perhaps due to the warmth of chris acoustic guitar and the largely swirly and percussive nature of the song itself.. the performance really is wonderful. there is a sense of completeness, yet there is also a feeling of movement and opportunity, space enough to push the song in ways that aren't necessarily obvious. maybe it is a form of conflict or tension, a tension that is continually resolving and renewing until the final note rings out. while the song's overall tone is dark, bleak, or whatever, there is a note of hope that is not only borne out in the lyrics but in the chord progression itself (but then again, I'm probably just hearing things). the mood is haunting but still uplifting in some undefinable way. I don't know. maybe I'm just reading too much into it. I do know that as dense as it sometimes sounds, there is a lot of space to 'head down', perhaps more space than can ever be explored in six minutes. musician by musician - ben wrote the song, so I'll talk about his performance/contribution first. yes, the song rocks. perfect in almost every detail. in fact, I'd consider giving my eye teeth to hear his original demo, including his own vocals ("you should hear ben's version when he sings it - it sounds even more like the beatles, like john lennon. I can't sound like that at all..." chris; guitar world may '94). it would be an early sketch of a masterpiece, something to treasure. I also appreciate that 'head down' is very much a unique composition, in that it sounds little like any of his other songs, before or after. I would argue that the songs he contributed to _badmotorfinger_ were more loyal to the soundgarden framework than 'head down' (or 'half' for that matter) are; perhaps he was only willing to move outside their relatively fixed sound once he had established himself within the band. as for his actual performance, his bass isn't particularly prominent in the mix, the guitars (especially acoustic) and drums pretty much occupy the front of the speakers. but after repeated listens, you can hear him. he is definitely there. it almost gets to the point where after repeated listens I have trouble hearing much else but ben, his ominous rumble a brilliant counterpoint to kim's sometimes lilting/sometimes haunting leads (although not as good as his performance on the fade out of 'my wave'). his playing is decidedly simple for the bulk of the song, but during the instrumental interlude (running between 2:40-3:50) he adds a number of grace notes and alternate twists, becoming just a little more complex. then at about the five minute mark he fades from the mix (at least that is how it sounds to me); perhaps to concentrate on his shared percussive role. on that note, ben and gregg's drumming contribution isn't readily discernable to me. they seem buried or low in the mix. I do note, however, percussive elements pulsing across the song's breadth that I can attribute to ben and gregg. during the instrumental break there a couple of cool moments, and at 1:42 there is an interesting crashing from the right speaker. of course, I don't think they are supposed to be taken or heard by themselves, but are meant to be heard in the song's own context. and in that they are successful. it is, however, chris' performance that truly takes this song into the stratosphere. I know for a fact that 'head down' is one of chris' favourite soundgarden songs, and it appears that he put in a lot of effort in recording it. as I mentioned earlier, chris' vocals are an attempt to replicate ben's original vocal melody and sound. it's hard to describe what they sound like, but I'm sure you know as well as I do. interestingly (even remarkably), the vocals you hear are a first take rather than a subsequent attempt or composite of various takes; chris managed to nail it first time, which I think is cool. chris used only one vocal track for most of the song, but did fool around a little. there is doubling here and there, most obvious on the stress of words like "try" and "fail" (the last word of each line). he moves away from the almost angelic voice to a more brawny one during the chorus immediately preceding the interlude. the verse following that breakdown is also doubled, one voice insanely high while the other is something approaching his normal lower voice. the final "got to smile..." features something like three or four vocal tracks, making it that much more intense. I would rate this (along with 'fourth of july') as the most interesting vocal performance on the record. as good as his vocals are, I must also mention chris' *phenomenal* guitar performance. if you don't know which one is him, chris is playing acoustic guitar, panned hard to the right. it is simply awesome, his fierce yet sweet attack giving me visions of some other-worldly campfire singalong, complete with soundgarden marshmallows (tm). halfway through the song he also follows kim's quasi-solo note for note, lending his own considerable weight to the passage and making it that much better. I know that in the past chris has belittled his own talent on guitar, but in combination with his performance on 'seasons' I don't know what he's thinking. kim plays it cool throughout 'head down', adding only what is necessary, never saying "look at me!". he definitely plays lead (panned to the left) and possibly another rhythm track, but it is hard to tell underneath chris and ben (although I imagine it is there, I just can't pick it out because it gels so well with everything else). there aren't many colour parts to find; just the simple opening scale, the numerous repeats of that scale and the song's primary descending/ascending riff. even the place where a solo could go (the instrumental break) is occupied by a fairly simple progression that I wouldn't really regard as a solo at all (there are few bands that could make a one minute instrumental break like this sound so smooth and natural). and more power to kim for realising that this is all the song required. overall, it is more his tone and not his dexterity that make his a worthy performance. small note: the guitar style in 'head down' is somewhat reminiscent of another tune by the name of 'down undershoe'. the drums are kind of interesting. reminding kim of the drum sound from _revolver_, matt gives an above average performance. there is, of course, all the offbeat stuff (in cooperation with gregg and ben's own cacophony). then there is the cool washy sound of his ride cymbal (it kind of dominates the top end of the mix) and the shuffling, almost musical, rolls that accompany each the sections between verses. matt used a smaller kick drum for this tune, making it difficult to hear most of the time. he also used a gretsch snare, which was not used on any other _superunknown_ song (can you hear the difference?). I don't think he uses his hi-hat at all; he obviously warmed to this, as during their performance of 'head down' at the reading festival he practically abandoned both his hi-hat and ride/crash, preferring to just stomp it out with his floor toms, a performance that reminds me of the foo fighters' 'x-static'. with the additional percussion from ben and gregg, matt shines once more on 'head down', their combined rhythm making it one of my personal favourites (although that didn't really translate to ease of writing this review). the ragged ending is a perfect conclusion to what I consider a totally flowing yet focused song. the lyrics - sandwiched between the hope of 'superunknown' ("if this isn't making sense, it doesn't make it lies") and the search for salvation of 'black hole sun' ("heaven send hell away"), 'head down' is in a difficult position. which way does it turn, to the dark or to the light? interestingly, it provides a stepping stone between the two, pushing the tone and the listener towards more usual soundgarden territory, that of depression and helplessness. the lyrics are as follows (keep in mind that what chris actually sings doesn't always follow what's in the book): we see you laugh we see you dance we take that away every day we see you cry we turn your head then we slap your face we see you try we see you fail some things never change we hear you cry we hear you wail we steal that smile from your face bow down to live your life head down, hide that smile head high got to smile head high like a song you like. I always viewed this song much more specifically or minutely than it was intended (at least that is the impression I now get). taking my cue from the first verse noted in the liner, I felt the 'head down' was about censorship. it still may be, but it is probably only confronts that on an incidental level. now I perceive the song to be more about more general (but no less insidious) forms of oppression. the writer (ben) is the authority figure or institution, and he is stating natural law: you can't do anything without us and if you do, well in that case we're going to take it away from you. the song is (to me) about the struggle for power, those who have it and those who don't. but it is also in a small way about how to survive under those sorts of conditions; that even though it is wrong to smile, sometimes you *have* to smile. otherwise the other team has won. if anyone has anything to add, I'd be happy to hear it . well, that's it for this week. I'll probably end up flipping a coin for next week's song over the weekend. you'll know how it turned out soon after that :) ----------------------------------------------- in your real life, treat it like it's special in your real life, try to be more kind in your real life, think of those that love you in this real life, try to be less blind words by vernon reid ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 22:06:04 -0600 From: Scott Brooks Subject: Possible Get-Back-Together? Alright. This may sound weird, and it may be totally false, but I want to know. I turned the radio on today right in the middle of something and I heard four words that made my heart skip a beat. Those four words were, "Soundgarden is back together." Is that true? Is it nothing but a big pile of BS? I have to know. Scott Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 21:24:37 -0700 From: Michael Roberson Subject: Las Vegas Hey, I haven't checked my mail in a while (120 messages!). But in response to Carol's message, I live in Las Vegas. She's already gone, though. Damn! Mike Roberson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:52:56 -0400 From: Adam Nowinski Subject: Song of the Week and first impressions of SU Hello--- Justin, great insight on "Head Down". I agree with you whole heartedly on the fact that it is a hidden gem along with "Fresh Tendrils". It wasn't my favorite song at first, but it started to grow on me, along with songs that Ben wrote for Hater. I have been a Soundgarden fan since a friend of mine taped LTL for me. It totally blew away the music that the butt-rockers of the mid to late 80's made. BMF right away was my favorite album by any band, even more so than "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn". SU then came next, and I guess my expectations were high on this album. I hated "Spoonman", like many others have stated previously, but thought that it was unique and showed that this album was to be quite different. This album, much like "Head Down", didn't click with me at first. I liked the bitterness of "Mailman", the pyschadelic groove of "Superunknown", and the slow grind of "4th of July", but that was all. The songs sounded over-produced, like the edges were rounded off. I still don't like SU as much as BMF or UMOK, but I have found it easier to listen to, even more so now that they have split. DOTU just sits in my room serving its purpose as a coaster. The songs on DOTU sound more pop oriented---cant spell, it seems as if they are holding back. It is hard to put into words, but they seemed to have lost some of the roughness and rockingness that defined earlier SG albums---not an Engl. major. I unfortunately don't have any pets, but my friend's ferret likes BMF blaring through the speakers. She, the ferret, likes to run into the walls, I guess it is her way of moshing. p.s. My screen name should obviously point out which album I like best. Later--- Adam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:45:01 +1000 From: Nicky Taylor Subject: Sg unplugged on rage? What? Down under on the upside To all the aussies who asked about sg unplugged on rage, I think trent just got confused with sg video clips on rage, because I watched it till 3 in the morning the week after the video clips, and there was no unplugged, but perhaps trent can tell us what he means. Dose anybody on this list no whether Down Under on the upside will become as rare and as sought after as somms is? And why was Ty cobb only released in australia? I think that kinda unfair for everyone else. Nicky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 15:25:18 +1000 From: justin nicholls Subject: never far from being wrong... On Tue, 13 May 1997, Nicky Taylor wrote: > Dose anybody on this list no whether Down Under on the upside will become as > rare and as sought after as somms is? And why was Ty cobb only released in > australia? I think that kinda unfair for everyone else. I'm fairly certain that duotu will never be as significant as somms plainly is nicky, if only for the fact that all the songs on the extra dotu disc can be found on other formats (not to mention that 'she's a politician' is way cooler than 'jerry garcia's finger'). as for 'ty cobb', don't complain. we australians are special ;) ----------------------------------------------- in your real life, treat it like it's special in your real life, try to be more kind in your real life, think of those that love you in this real life, try to be less blind words by vernon reid ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 12 May 1997 to 13 May 1997 ************************************************