From: somms@mit.edu To: somms-digest@mit.edu Subject: Soundgarden Digest, Tuesday, 4 Mar 1997 Reply-To: somms@mit.edu Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 01:26:20 EST Sender: saperl The Soundgarden Digest: Tuesday, 4 Mar 1997 listadmin: saperl@mit.edu list archive: http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/archive/ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: email saperl@mit.edu Today's Topics: Re: Grammy's/Inflatable Soule Re: Chris's Songs Re: hey now! ULTRAMEGAWHOOPEE!!! pic of Chris by Kevin Westenberg Re: Chris' Songs & the defence thereof.... Re: safely held beneath the waves... Chris the poet Re: safely held beneath the waves... Pretty Noose Re: safely held beneath the waves... Fork Article re: bring the noise bring the noise Re: Fork Article and now. . .Chris vs. Billy Re:New Reader before the show caryn's professions Sonic Garden Re: New Reader Woohoo!!! Re: caryn's professions Re: New Reader lotsa different things... About suing people... Re:New Reader LISTENING TO SOUNDGARDEN ENHANCES VIRILITY AND HEARING OUR OWN PERSONAL JESUS Re: caryn's professions Ummmm... oops. ;-) Re: Ummmm... oops. ;-) Fwd: Fork Article ATTENTION CANADIANS.. Fwd: lotsa different things (cont'd) Re: ATTENTION CANADIANS.. lotsa different things (cont'd) Chris via Margret New York Mag Re: safely held beneath the waves... ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Mercyhurst Prep Library Subject: Re: Grammy's/Inflatable Soule Inf. Soule is an unsigned Seattle band that has 2 self-paid CDs out. I need to double-check w/ someone inthe band--he said something about a new PO box for people to use. I'll post the info when I get it. You have to send to the band to get tier CDs and tees shirts, etc. Yeah, they are pretty incredible, but for listers who are looking for a Soundgarden clone--I.S. isn't! They have their own marvellous sound! At 06:22 PM 2/28/97 +0000, you wrote: >! One more thing-Does anybody know where " So Sad " by Inflatable >Soule is available ? Any band that contains 3 Cornell siblings & is >managed by Susan Silver has to be incredible. I've searched every >record store in Houston to no avail. Is it even out yet ? > ------------------------------ From: Paul_Faraguna@dbna.com (Paul Faraguna) Subject: Re: Chris's Songs on 3/4/97 KAISERVRBL@aol.com wrote: >Chris Cornell is *THE* greatest and most poetic writer to have ever >graced >the music or literary scene in this century or any other. Anyone who >thinks >Billy whiny-ass Corgan even compares to CC knows absolutely nothing >about >writing! OK. I haven't posted in a long time because I haven't had anything to say but this just screams for comment. While I agree that Cornell is a better writer than Corgan, I think your statement about him being THE greatest ever is just as misinformed as the "Corgan" statement was stupid. Part of the problem with this list is that some people are so fanatically in love with SG that they have lost all objectivity. Is Chris a great songwriter? Yes. Is he one of the best? Time will tell. Is he THE greatest ever? Please, learn to be objective. Paul ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * THE MERRY PRANKSTER * * * * -Stop you're trying to bruise my mind * * I can do it on my own * * * * -If this isn't making sense * * It doesn't make it lies * * * * -I brake for hallucinations * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: KAISERVRBL@aol.com Subject: Re: hey now! In a message dated 3/2/97 3:08:54 PM, jkern@speakeasy.org (Jennifer Kern) wrote: << Lance--I am very surprised by your vicious tongue concerning SP. I thought you were more open minded than that. Though you may not care for SP, how can you possibly be so cruel and insensitive to start degrading them as songwriters...Do you know anything about songwriting???>> It has nothing to do with liking or disliking SP or Billy. In fact I love the band. I just don't think the statement "Billy Corgan is amore personal writer that CC" is in any way accurate. The truth of the matter is they are very different songwriters very different talents. However, when it comes to word-smithing, I *believe* Chris is superior to any writer I have ever seen. Lance "The ugly truth just loves to get in the way" ------------------------------ From: Seth Subject: ULTRAMEGAWHOOPEE!!! Howdy Am I the only one to notice this, or have any of the rest of you seen the TV ads for General Nutrition Center advertising a new vitamin supplement called "WOMEN'S ULTRA MEGA" Cool. I wonder what the hell is in it. Probably like three parts beer and ground-up pieces from broken bass amps and maybe a bunch of concentrated noise in a handy-dandy pill form. You take it for those times when you really just want to kick some ass, or vent all your frustrations all at one time. Take two before every concert to guarantee that you will rock as well as be completely regular!!!! I think I need me some of this. I wonder if they make a form for men. L7 must take a lot of WOMEN'S ULTRA MEGA. Circe does too. This is a very funny subject because you know that the ONE cool person working the head office at GNC totally ripped off the name; no coincidence involved here. I would do it if it was me, except I think I would make MEN'S LOUD LOVE, or DOWNERS ON THE UPSIDE. Please note the sarcasm before you come at me with naughty thoughts. I am laughing my ass off here! Seth W. (different seth) P.S. The dumb thing is it comes in a big pink bottle, very UN-ultra. "And you never rest...fighting the battle of who could care less"-Ben Folds Five !!!!Only two more weeks to the new Ben Folds comes out, kiddies! Mar 18, unless CMJ is lying to me.!!!!! ------------------------------ From: Slave4cc@aol.com Subject: pic of Chris by Kevin Westenberg Does anybody know what magazine or where this picture is?? KOTS said that its still owned by the photographer and so they cant help me get one. Its black & white of Chris. Hes crouched down, no shirt, wearing army boots, his long hair flying, hes screaming. Probably BMF or right before era. Know where I can find it besides Seths page?? ie: Spin, Rolling Stone or what not. Your held as always would really be appreciated. Carol Swallowing rivers belongs to the sea when the whole thing washes away, dont run to me. ------------------------------ From: BdMtrFngr Subject: Re: Chris' Songs & the defence thereof.... I dont care about all these meters and structures bullshit, but I'' tell you something...Boot Camp could be in a poetry textbook. Thank you, Religion of Kim Thayil On Sun, 2 Mar 1997, caryn rose wrote: > At 10:31 AM 3/2/97 -0500, KAISERVRBL@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 97-03-01 20:00:53 EST, you write: > > > ><< chris cornell is a great writer, but hardly a poet. >> > > > >You are sssssooooooooooooooo wrong! Cris Cornell is a poet. Go to the lyric > >section of the page and read his words devoid of the music they are attached > >to. They are literally exploding with imagery, metaphor, emotion, irony, > >beauty, hate, lust, personification, and on and on and on and on. > > they are beautiful *songs*, beautiful words. rock musicians are not > automatically poets, nor do many wish them to be. > > >How, exactly, do you define a poet Caryn? As someone who rhymes or writes in > >structured stanzas and meter? > > even poets who write in free-form have some structure. don't insult me like > this, lance. i'm a hell of a lot smarter than you think, and might just > know as much about poetry as you do. > > >I am a writer by profession. I studied writing in College. In fact, I majored > >AND minored in it. > > big deal. so did i. i also made my living as a writer for several years > and in fact still in many ways do so. that doesn't set me or you judge and > jury over what is poetry and what is not. > > >I have been a huge music fan most of my life. I am very > >familar with great songwriters like Townsend, Plant, Springsteen, Young. So I > >am well informed and not discounting *anyone* when I say that I believe that > >Chris Cornell is the quintesential *poet* of this or any generation, I mean > >exactly what I say. > > you didn't say "i believe", you said uncategorically that he is. and i > didn't say that you didn't mean what you said, i was offering some others i > feel have written lyrics to a greater power, at least to me personally. > > >>>um, lance -- ever heard of an *opinion*?????????????<< > > > >Yes, I have and this is mine. I believe whole-heartedly that saying anything > >Billy Corgan writes is even remotely more personal than what Chris writes is > >a Dumb-ass statement. Just because I chose to use the phrase *dumb-ass* as an > >adjective, does not mean I was *flaming* him. > > lance, it does. your statement was so clearly a flame a newbie could see > it. if you want to get into a lyrical debate with andrew dunn, i encourage > you to. he could quote you word for word, line for line, cornell vs. > corgan, and it would be one of the most intelligent exchanges this list has > seen for months. > > even *I* disagree with your statement. i wouldn't go so far as to say that > corgan's lyrics are *more* personal than cornell's -- but i would say that > there's a certain detachment that chris brings sometimes that isn't present > in corgan's songs. hence the reason people tend to call billy a 'whiner'. > THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER. personally, billy's > lyrics do not speak to me at all, and cornell's do a little further, but not > to the extent that they obviously influence you. > > >This is a personal topic to me. *VERY personal*. Chris' lyrics are what makes > >me such a devoted SG fan. It is the very essence of why I hunt for every > >single word he has ever penned. It's what I believe and it is not meant to be > >taken personally by any other person. > > i still maintain that your previous statement was a flame, and i would offer > the thought that the subject is so personal to you that you are unable to be > objective-- which is fine; i'm hardly objective about the things nearest and > dearest to me too. but don't assume that the statement which sparked this > exchange didn't originate from the exact same place in someone else. > > this list has a tendancy sometimes to trash other bands relentlessly in our > defense of soundgarden. let's respect the fact that it's perfectly > acceptable to like and love and worship other bands too, and not to think > that chris cornell is the messiah returned. of course, it's perfectly > acceptable to think that he is, as long as you don't try to force your > opinion down everyone else's throat. > > --caryn > > ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Dunn" Subject: Re: safely held beneath the waves... From: blind dog Subject: safely held beneath the waves... Big messages... On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Andrew Dunn wrote: >> art of writing great lyrics. It may be a flaw in my genetic code or >> something but Corgan's songs in my eyes are much much much more personal >> than anything Cornell could ever ever write. > let me just prefix this by saying that none of us could ever hope > to fully understand either of these vocalists' songs or words. if we > could lists like this wouldn't be any fun :) Sure we can, we can understand them fully. Their origional intent... maybe not, but there's a lot of songs we can all understand fully. Those who do understand the songs just choose not to post. hehehe. I know my interpretation of "Zero" things that were probably not the intent that Billy had, and probably not the thoughts most people have. People look for too much validation from others to prove that their views on songs are 'correct'. A lot of us are secure in our own interpretation of the song not to question any farther. > while you made a couple of good points in your post andrew, I have > to disagree with the part about billy's lyrics being more personal than > anything chris could "ever ever write". I can appreciate that billy's > words may strike more chords with you than chris' or make more sense to > you personally, but I don't know that you can invalidate what chris > *hasn't* written or is *yet to* write. When I wrote in my post "in my eyes" (yes you quoted it this time correctly, others have not) that was only a statement of opinion. The fact is, I know no more about what's gonna come out of Chris' pen than I do of Billy's so if you want to argue about the word "will", I'll give in... If you want I'll rephrase the sentance. "Chris hasn't written anything yet that can quite compare to anything Billy has written in the past 9 years at least in my frame of mind". A good argument is made up of extremes. You either take it all the way, or you go half-assed. I'm not one that usually likes coming off half-assed =) But I can't help feeling that's the way I feel. I mean it's not like I listen to "Room", "4th Of July", "Mailman", "Pretty Noose", "Zero Chance", "Hunted Down" and feel absolutely no emotion. If that was the case I wouldn't listen to Soundgarden. I just don't look at them as say "oh god Badmotorfinger saved my life in high school" when it took Siamese Dream to do it. > that just seems too shallow a way > to judge someone's lyrical worth. it is easy to point to songs like > 'disarm', 'spaceboy' or 'ugly' and say "wow, chris cornell could never > write something as personal as that", but how could you ever tell or > imagine with any real accuracy what chris *could* one day write? that is > not giving the man his due, or the respect he deserves. Well if it makes you feel better Chris is not a horrible writer and nor did I ever claim him to be. But his songs seem 'detached' to me. Things I've never expericenced. Chris is just a lot more reactionary as well, a lot more physical. To me Chris sounds like an extrovert (in his writing) while Billy is very introverted (in his writing also) it seems to be the opposite in public appearances =P. And on a tangent to another 'debate' going on in here: Hell, he can be a poet, they both can be, that doesn't mean we have to like all poetry. (BTW, not all good rock stars, good writers, are good poets necessarily. Just like all poets aren't always good rock stars). > hmmm...this is difficult. it is hard to talk about relative > degrees of "personalness" in song-writing, especially when the true > meaning of both artists' songs are not so simple to understand. That's why these arguments are circular. The origional point of my last message was "let's NOT go there, let's NOT get into the place where we have to start taking sides to defend ourselves and our loves" you know "Don't make me do this PLEASE" =). I really like this list, but I don't hesitate to unsubscribe because of the shear ignorance of it sometimes (I have in the past). And from the response of my last message, more than a few of you agree that it makes you feel a little less welcome. > from my > perspective, the lyrics billy has shared with us to this point *are* more > personal than chris'. with some songs there is no contest. but their > contrasting styles makes this comparison difficult. difficult, most likely impossible. > billy obviously sings > and writes from the heart. chris, on the other hand, seems to write less from his > heart and more from his mind. whether that is because of his desire to be shut off > from others or not (see 'the day I tried to live') and to keep his private > thoughts private is unclear. but I wouldn't discount his ability to write > lyrics on a par with billy because of this. in fact, chris obviously feels > *very* strongly about what he sings; I myself believe that the sheer > simplicity of 'boot camp' rivals much of the emotion billy puts into a > song like 'here is no why' or 'blue'. and while chris writes less from > the first person perspective than billy (see 'new damage' or 'mailman' vs. > to forgive' or 'by starlight'), he has the ability imho to write just as > sincererly and profoundly as billy (see 'seasons', 'cold bitch' or 'hands > all over'). Oh yes, you said it correctly, (IMHO) is always in the picture, so it's impossible (although compelling) to make definate statements. In my eyes, though, Chris hasn't written any significant body of work on the same emotional level that I am on. Billy has, which makes him much more compelling. Only songs like "Seasons", "Mailman", "Limo Wreck", "Face Pollution", "Searching", really hit me on that level. For a lot of Soundgarden's songs it's the music (the acutal music, which we really haven't talked about yet) which gets me rockin' and keeps me buying records. And I'm very picky... even though the music will rock me without the emotion of the lyrics I'm just not totally 'there'. And I think on the surface I understand where Chris and sometimes the others are coming from. And on the surface, I agree with most of their assesments of life and religion, etc etc etc. But something's just not there. It's that same 'something' that makes it work totally for you. > there is little doubt in my mind that if and when the mood takes > him, chris could write songs with just as much heart as billy. Hearts of the artists we can't question, we should only be questioning our own hearts. > maybe he > just doesn't need the release or remedial effects of those words as much > . perhaps we will never know for sure. at any rate, I think it > is unfair to say that a lyricist of chris' stature and ability is > categorically unable to write as well as another. let's try and work with > what we know; not with unknowns. Ok, I can agree to this. Based on what Billy has said about his writing in the future (getting away from the songs he's typically written) even I have no clue what to feel and how to feel about some of the new songs. Only time will tell. So, I apologize if some of you thought I wasn't giving Chris his due praise. - -Andrew, back to lurking, again. ------------------------------ From: me Subject: Chris the poet For those of you sticking up for Chris, congrats. For those of you doubting him, well. Just take a look at Hunger Strike, its not a long song, lyric wise, but it is one of his best. Corgan tends to write about how he feels, Chris does in a way, but all the teenage girls listen to sp and they think, wow thats how I feel. I like the pumpkins, but its lines like "I caught the moon today", "Pick it up and throw it away" that make me listen. Not all of Chris's songs are like, me me me me me. See what I'm getting at, I really dont want Chris to be the voice of this generation. I just want him to continue writing good songs and and rocking like only Soundgarden can. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: safely held beneath the waves... From: seth Mr. Dunn wrote: > For a lot of > Soundgarden's songs it's the music (the acutal music, which we really > haven't talked about yet) which gets me rockin' and keeps me buying > records. And I'm very picky... even though the music will rock me without > the emotion of the lyrics I'm just not totally 'there'. These are my sentiments exactly (except for the part about not being 'there'). When I listen to Soundgarden's songs, I almost never pay any attention to the lyrics. It's the overall feel of the music that hits me. Take a song like Flower, for example. The lyrics are so buried beneath the music that while I'm aware there's a vocal line, and even though several years after first hearing them I now know what the words are, they just blend with everything else. Yet I can listen to that song over and over and love it every time. My roommate and I listen to Badmotorfinger all the time and we just shake our heads and say "I can't believe how fucking good this is." But we never once talk about the lyrics. We always talk about the music and the overall effect of the song. The end of Rusty Cage. The opening crunch of Outshined and Room A Thousand Years Wide. The riff and scream in New Damage. Slaves & Bulldozers and Jesus Christ Pose in their overwhelming entirety. I do not agree that Chris is unconditionally a poet or even a great lyricist (um, "eat the fruit and kiss the snake goodnight"?), but what he *is* good at is choosing words that fit the music and singing them in the right way (or at least he was good at it in the past; no, I don't like DOTU). I know that a favorite line among list members is "I'm luck's last match struck/In the pouring down wind." The only part of this line I ever hear is "pouring down wind," because the way he sings the words fits the music perfectly. Separated from the music, the words don't affect me at all. I admit that Chris occasionally creates some cool imagery with his lyrics ("Scared by monkey faces" and "I sharpened my wits on a dead man's skull" are two of my favorites), but when I'm listening to Face Pollution or Mind Riot, those things don't reach out and throttle me like the music does. In Limo Wreck, it's not the lyrics in the first part of the verse that blow me away, but the *way* he sings the chorus on top of his bandmates. I don't listen to Mailman and think, "Damn, these lyrics are good"; I think, "When they did this live, Chris voice went up when he sang the seconds syllable of 'bottom' instead of going down like he does on the record. That was *cool*." I think the reason I lean towards the music and overall effect of songs rather than the lyrics is that I'm trained as a classical musician, and the vast majority of what I perform and listen to has no vocals; I find that the pieces that do have texts use those texts to contribute to the texture and effect of the music. It would be hard to argue that the Allegretto from Beethoven's Seventh Symphony or his Fur Elise are any less moving than the finale of his Ninth Symphony, even though the latter has a text and the former two do not. seth ------------------------------ From: mdorn@aps.mntm.org (Michael J. Dorn) Subject: Pretty Noose I have heard Down on the Upside being played in every car that drives by for two months straight. Blow up the Outside World has broke some barriers I think, from a twisted depressioned mind into power of rage of being everwhere and doing everything possible in your whole uncensored storybook life. I love this song. P.S. Soundgarden should have got the grammy of best Hard Rock Performance of "Pretty Noose" but I am also glad that TSP got it instead of STP. ------------------------------ From: me Subject: Re: safely held beneath the waves... Yeah I agree that the music does come first. The lyrics do have to tell the story. Its not so much the lyrics that do it for me, like in jcp, its pretty much the Godzilla intro. Every time I hear the song it reminds me of Godzilla. Then the part in Outshined after the he sings the chorus the second time, its like bliss. Maybe dotu lacked direction still there are a handfull of songs that are good, if not typical sg. In a way dotu reminds me of ultramega ok in some ways.. If any one can guess what song these lyrics are from e-mail me and then I will tell you how cool you are. "Of course this land is dangerous!" "All of the animals are capably murderous." ------------------------------ From: Betty Anne Redson Subject: Fork Article I saw that someone mentioned about an article where Chris said that the fork he wore was made by Shannon Hoon. What article is this? Is it on Seths page? If anyone could tell me where I could read it I would appreciate it. Marie ------------------------------ From: endless_nameless@prodigy.com (GRRL NIKI FREER) Subject: re: bring the noise vince wrote: > In the new issue of Spin Magazine (with Trent Reznor on the cover), they had a pictorial retrospective of the biggest names in rock and of course, Soundgarden was in it. > > yeah, and here's the little caption for all of you to groan over like i did: SOUNDGARDEN- 32 "If Kurt Cobain and Eddie Vedder have been the soul of Seattle, Soundgarden's Chris Cornell defines the sound. Hair flying (till he trimmed it to a shock- maybe grunge really *is* dead), lungs propelling the most righteous bellow since Led Zeppelin and _Jesus Christ Superstar_, Cornell and Soundgarden are blatantly anthemic staduim rockers nevertheless committed to punk rock, avowed enemy of such displays. In growing from a club band act to one versatile enough to write the ballad "Black Hole Sun"-- though 1996's Down on the Upside was more a sturdy piece of rockmanship-- the tension of that paradox has given Soundgarden a depth younger alt-bands rarely approach. " when any article about SG starts off "If Kurt Cobain..." you know that it's headed downhill from there. SARCASM!!!!!!! i happen to like nirvana somewhat... mind riot ____ we see you cry turn your head then we slap your face we see you try see you fail some things never change... ------------------------------ From: Vince Varkey Subject: bring the noise In the new issue of Spin Magazine (with Trent Reznor on the cover), they had a pictorial retrospective of the biggest names in rock and of course, Soundgarden was in it. I think they were on p.136 (I don't have the issue in front of me). Anyway, it is a very nice picture, with a cool blur effect going on. Anyway, you should all check it out and Seth, it would look oh so nice on your site : ) - -vince ------------------------------ From: Mercyhurst Prep Library Subject: Re: Fork Article Yeah, is this urban myth or what? KAren Cornell, that's Chris's mom once said the fork was made and given to him by a family friend long before Shannon and Co. opened for Sg. But what do I know, right? At 02:29 PM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >I saw that someone mentioned about an article where Chris said that the >fork he wore was made by Shannon Hoon. What article is this? Is it on >Seths page? If anyone could tell me where I could read it I would >appreciate it. >Marie > > ------------------------------ From: "Jamie C." Subject: and now. . .Chris vs. Billy here's my opinion. . . chris writes lyrics that are full of imagery and life. The words jump off the page at me. He also isn't afraid to poke fun (ie: Big Dumb Sex, etc...). Billy Corgan has a completely different style, IMHO. He writes from the inside out, about expertiences that could hit closer to home to anyone person. To me, Billy is a whinier guy, therefore his lyrics are just that much more moroseful. I personally think both of them are geniuses; Chris' more mysterious lyrics and his ability write powerful songs is amazing. . . Billy's ability to write catchy songs with sing-along choruses and blistering solos is amazing as well. Let's drop the subject, for on this list, Cornell is the BEST. If you want to say how great Billy is (which is true, btw), go say it on a Pumpkins listserv. E-mail me and I'll provide with an address, so you can subscribe to it. - -- - -JAmiE Care - ---------------------------------------------- ******* "Two of us, that's dangerous" * * (B.C.) * O O O * ---------------------------------- * * acoustic sounds...... * ***** * ****MoNaBoNe-J**** * * jcare@callisto.uwinnipeg.ca ******* ----------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: SndGrdn45@aol.com Subject: Re:New Reader Do you like know Susan Silver or something? Why are you so defensive? ------------------------------ From: Luck's Last Match Subject: before the show i saw last night, which was Cracker in Stewart Theater, much thanx to jeremie, the pa was happy. why? B/c the soundboard operator decided to play bmf. And after Running from Anna, (opening band), left, the cd picked up where it left off. Then after new damage faded out, let me drown came on. this guy rocks. at least i thought that until i statred playing the guitar intro for my wave in my head and it didn't come on. Dammit. some band that sound a lot like massy jive came on. ugh. don't get me wrong, massy jive is good at what they do, i'm just not a fan of what they do. At least Cracker rocked. -j "I took this class last year. Don't worry, it was pretty cool." -Johnny Hickman, Cracker, on the size of the crowd @ the Stewart Theater show on 3/2/97. ------------------------------ From: "Jamie C." Subject: caryn's professions i'm thinking of starting a list of how many professions caryn has claimed to have been in. let's see; writer, poet, something with computers. . .any others? perhaps a member of the police force. . . maybe a butcher. . . a baker?. . . a candlestick maker??. . . search the digest archives! the race has begun. . . - -- - -JAmiE Care - ---------------------------------------------- ******* "Two of us, that's dangerous" * * (B.C.) * O O O * ---------------------------------- * * acoustic sounds...... * ***** * ****MoNaBoNe-J**** * * jcare@callisto.uwinnipeg.ca ******* ----------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "BRONWYN J. KELLY" Subject: Sonic Garden Last night on frontline they had easily the funniest show I've ever seen Where they had a band called Sonic Garden which the current affairs show desided to bag for supposably telling kids to commit suicide. I think this was their way at having a go at the media attacking bands after someone kills themselves. But I just loved the blanantcy of calling them sonic garden something of a cross between sonic youth and soundgarden. By the way if you have no idea entirely about what I'm talking about Frontline is a satire on current affairs shows made in Australia which is called behind the frontline in the US. I just felt it nessesary to share this with the world. Yesterday was the first time a wrote in here and it's nice but scary at the same time to find bigger fanatics than me here. Bronwyn ------------------------------ From: SJordet@aol.com Subject: Re: New Reader SndGrdn45 wrote: >Do you like susan Silver or something? Why are you so defensive? I don't know who this was meant to go out to, or what the message was, but why shouldn't they like Susan Silver? She's an awesome woman, gorgeous, intelligent, level-headed, and she damn well knows what she's doing. I think that we NEED cool & spunky people like Rita and whoever wrote the message you're responding to to stick up for Susan. Just like we need cool & spunky people to stick up for Ben, right...? (notice sarcasm here as I indicate my own ego =) Benlover =) ------------------------------ From: ShRooMGrLz@aol.com Subject: Woohoo!!! Happy Birthday to Caryn Rosemeister!! Thanks for being such a supergroovycool friend, Caryn. You're fucking awesome, and I love ya. =3D= ) May you have an excellent year, and I hope no one clues you in on how Se= th and I are plotting on giving you your birthday spankin... oops.... I didn= 't just say that. ;-) SG stuff... I'm almost done with the "You know you're obsessed with SG when..." and SG Haiku web pages. I spent one night of last week going through old digests to find this stuff... and I came up with a bunch of o= ther groovy stuff. Like the beginning of the KTMS. And of course there was NOTHINGATE '96. Is he still subbed to the list, I wonder? And Andrea po= sted this in July... I though it would be appropriate to repost it, as U2's ne= w album is out or almost out or whatever. (Can you tell that I'm not a U2 = fan? ;-) - -------------------------------------- From: apinto@mv.us.adobe.com (Andrea Pinto) Subject: SG & U2 I just heard a good SG anecdote: I live & work in seattle. Someone in my company knows I like SG, and told me that back in the late 80's, he played in a band that opened up for SG = at a local club called the offramp. This was the same time that U2 released "Rattle & Hum". So, in a mocking gesture, SG made pamphlets printed out for this show saying: "Soundgarden: Paddle my Bum". Then chris cornell threw them out to the audience. That would be a nice trinket to have. - -------------------------------------------------=20 And from the beginning of the KTMS... a haiku and obsessed comment from o= ut very own List Thug: Strong enough for Kim, PH balanced for Heather Miffin...... Kick some ass. - -You know you are obsessed with Soundgarden when you plot revenge against someone on their behalf. - ------------------------------------------------- Anyway, that's all for now. I'll post the URL's to the new pages as soon= as I'm done. What can I say? I'm nice like that. And again... HAPPY BIRTHD= AY TO CARYNMEISTER!!! =20 {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Caryn }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Shroom "...Well throw away your Soundgarden albums cause Kindom Come is here" ~ Chris "Caryn, get the biggest bottle of chocolate sauce that you can find and I= 'll bring the whipped cream. I'm going to be the first EVER edible-rockstar-birthday-treat! Eddie said he'll join us and bring his v= ideo camera. You know how he is about documenting everything..." ~ Chris Corn= ell (Words not necessarily said in that order...) <~~~ my disclaimer Shroom Girl, Inc. =99 '96 =20 ------------------------------ From: caryn rose Subject: Re: caryn's professions At 03:45 PM 3/3/97 -0600, Jamie C. wrote: >i'm thinking of starting a list of how many professions caryn has >claimed to have been in. let's see; writer, poet, something with >computers. . .any others? perhaps a member of the police force. . . >maybe a butcher. . . a baker?. . . a candlestick maker??. . . > >search the digest archives! the race has begun. . . no need, asshole -- i'll just give you the URL to my online resume. unlike you, some people actually manage to ACCOMPLISH something in their lives and have talents beyond cutting other people down... - --caryn ------------------------------ From: me Subject: Re: New Reader SndGrdn45@aol.com wrote: > > Do you like know Susan Silver or something? Why are you so defensive? Uh was this directed twards any one? by any chance? ------------------------------ From: merlin Subject: lotsa different things... hey... First off I just want to make it clear that I know none of the statements I'm responding to in this post were directed at me, and that I'm only responding to them, not flaming anyone or trying to piss anyone off. :) >there's a detachment that chris brings that isn't present in corgan's >songs. I don't own any SP albums, and I can't speak for any BC songs but a select few. But I can certainly speak for Chris', and I disagree w/ this statement vehemently. Chris is one of the most passionate, poignant singer/songwriters ever, and this is glaringly apparent in songs like BUTOW, "Pretty Noose," "Boot Camp" and BHS, just to name a few. I can think of so many words to describe Chris' songs, and if I used them all this post would be *way* too long. But the last one I would ever use is "detached." >> i am a writer by profession. i studied writing in college. in fact, i >>majored and minored it it. >big deal. so did i. i also made a living as a writer... that doesn't set >me or you judge and jury over what is poetry and what is not. Damn straight it doesn't. I haven't even had the chance to major or minor in writing - I'm still in high school. It doesn't make any difference. What matters is what you get out of each writers' lyrics and what your own interpretation of them is. It all comes down to each persons' opinion. >and i would offer the thought that the subject is so personal to you >that you are unable to be objective... Well I don't know about Lance, but I know that when a song or other work of art effects me in a very personal way *I'm* still able to be objective about it... being a writer myself, in a way I've got to be. >this list has a tendency sometimes to trash other bands relentlessly >in our defense of SG. Well, *I've* never trashed another band. And really, SG doesn't need anyones' defense. Their amazing music speaks for itself. >none of us could ever hope to fully understand either of these >vocalists songs or words... If you always knew what the writer had in mind when he/she was writing... well, where would be the fun in that? Sometimes a writer/lyricist will write something... and *they* don't even know what it means, and then later on they'll discover that it really did make sense... maybe it came from their subconscious, or maybe when they realized that it *did* mean something they were just looking at it from a different perspective. The point isn't to "fully understand" the *writer's* meaning... it's to come up w/ your own interpretation, and to fully understand *that.* I've gotta go. To be continued. ~Lorraine Nothing seems to break me no matter how far I fall nothing can break me at all. . . ------------------------------ From: "Phelan, Kate" Subject: About suing people... From: Rebekah Henderson Subject: KERRANG! article In the March 1st KERRANG! magazine, Chris talks about how every member of the band has been sued. We all know about Kim allegedly assaulting a fan and Chris tells about how Matt threw his snare drum up in the air and it bounced off the drum riser, rolled offstage and landed on some guy's shoulder, who in turn sued. I was wondering what Chris and Ben have been sued for?? Does anybody know? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- I was wondering yesterday, if any of the members of SG have themselves sued anyone? Over lyrics, sampling, invasion of privacy, etc. I've never heard anything about it, but it'd be interesting to know... k ------------------------------ From: Rita Bonofiglio Subject: Re:New Reader On Mon, 3 Mar 1997 SndGrdn45@aol.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:41:37 -0500 (EST) > From: SndGrdn45@aol.com > To: SOMMS@MIT.EDU > Subject: Re:New Reader > > Do you like know Susan Silver or something? Why are you so defensive? > so i assume this was directed to me? no, i don't know susan silver...ok everyone I DON'T KNOW SUSAN SILVER!! just defending her, as any one of you would do if someone made unflattering comments about someone you respect or admire...thats all...really, am i that defensive? i've seen people throw much bigger fits over the smallest of things... always defending, - -----rita b. ------------------------------ From: CL Miller Subject: LISTENING TO SOUNDGARDEN ENHANCES VIRILITY AND HEARING - -- Check out my store's site!! http://www.MovieStop.com/ Record of the week LIVE: SECRET SAMADHI I too wondered whether or not to post to the Cornell/Corgan controversy. I have a few points to make. Read them, agree, disagree, or delete. . .you decide. 1. First of all, how can anyone really know how personal a song is to someone unless you ARE that person? I've written many songs (in my own inexperienced way) that are very personal to me, but in varying degrees. Caryn, you being a writer (and please correct me should I be wrong) know that you may write something on a very tiny insignificant experience and come up with something just as powerful as if you were encompassing your entire life. Chris and Billy may be different writers. . .more than likely, they are. However, I think that this issue is tantamount to the rap versus pop music issue. Many people, unfortunately, feel that rap is not a valid form of music. Simply because the style, rhythm, lyrics, etc. are not MAINSTREAM POP. It is not a matter of music, or lyrics or anything. . .it is a matter of EXPRESSION. Chris is expressing himself through his lyrics. Billy is expressing himself through his lyrics. Whether or not they are personal is not up to us to decide. We do not live Chris's (or Billy's) life, so we cannot say whether or not their lyrics, or the lyrics of any band, are "acceptible". AAAAGGGGGGAAAAAAIIIIIINNNNNNN. . .this is only MY own very personal opinion and you are all entitled to yours. 2. To whomever trashed MOSH, please keep your scorches within a private domain. I really don't need to waste my time reading mudslinging when I am here to read about SOUNDGARDEN! Thank you. (p.s. I was very happy with MOSH's video. . .nyahhh!) ;) 3. Has anyone seen Cable Guy? If you look closely, near the end of the movie, Matthew Broderick's character's friend comes into view. He is wearing the "screaming elf" SuperUnknown t-shirt. I saw it while the movie was in at work and got all giddy. 4. I find it sad and pathetic that someone confused Gavin Rossdale with Chris Cornell. . .but then again, if I were a nuclear engineer I would find it sad and pathetic if someone couldn't distinguish a "charm" quark from an "up" quark. Then again. . . SPIN magazine is another story! ;) 5. To whomever said that Matt Cameron sang in Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. . . God Bless You! Just when I was running out of movie trivia to dazzle my customers with, you saved me. . . and being Soundgarden related is a double jeopardy bonus! 6. To: Orko and the other newbies Re: Soundgarden covers Mssg: Check the unofficial website at www.sgi.net/soundgarden 7. Worship your Soundgarden collection daily for clear skin and a whiter smile! love all of you Chris damn! why couldn't i have been born in seattle??? ------------------------------ From: mshaw@lib.occ.cccd.edu (RoseeMisst) Subject: OUR OWN PERSONAL JESUS "Oh! gavin rossdale! he's *so hot*! And his lyrics are *so >meaningful*!" It was funny for a while but. . . >So some jackass thought CC was the lead singer from bush. Well >ya know what? I think I would've felt a very strong urge to smack >the little fucker (pardon my french), but you've just gotta learn to >ignore - or laugh at - poor, unfortunate (<--- this is called sarcasm), >ignorant people like that. They're always gonna be around, and >there's really nothing else you can do about them. ;-) >~Raine And some folks think that Cornell used to sing for Depeche Mode....hahahahaha! ------------------------------ From: KAISERVRBL@aol.com Subject: Re: caryn's professions In a message dated 3/3/97 3:43:34 PM, clr@nwlink.com (caryn rose) wrote: <i'm thinking of starting a list of how many professions caryn has >claimed to have been in. let's see; writer, poet, something with >computers. . .any others? perhaps a member of the police force. . . >maybe a butcher. . . a baker?. . . a candlestick maker??. . . > >search the digest archives! the race has begun. . . no need, asshole -- i'll just give you the URL to my online resume. unlike you, some people actually manage to ACCOMPLISH something in their lives and have talents beyond cutting other people down...>> Okay, this has kinda gotten out of hand. Lets just chill out and agree that Chris is an awesome writer and we can all have our own opinion as to just how good he is compared to other *writers*. There needs to be no name calling or personal attacks and vendettas or self-denials. Besides, when it comes to resumes I think Chris hit the nail on the head when he said "The lives we make never seem to get us anywhere but dead". Lance "The ugly truth just loves to get in the way" ------------------------------ From: ShRooMGrLz@aol.com Subject: Ummmm... oops. ;-) Guess what kiddies? I was *SO* excited about it being Caryn's birthday, = I posted two days early... damn meeeeeeee!! ;-) But the spanking thing is still on, right Sethmeister? {{{{{{ Caryn }}}}}} (Sorry I messed up. = I knew your b-day was one day removed from mine. I thought it was the day before, not after.... double damn me.) Hey, maybe Seth will let us spank him... just for kicks? ;-) Heheheh... j/k Yes, the first Chris-Cornell-Hootchie-Droolfest was held Friday night at Margret's house... and it was groovy! We watched as much SG footage as w= e could squeeze into one evening. I *finally* saw the BUTOW video (Geoff, = you digitized all the wrong pictures from it! j/k ;-)... I also saw the Fai= rfax video, which was totally rad (gotta love Chris in tight t-shirts and even TIGHTER jeans ;-)... and I saw all the Grammy's stuff that I missed. Wh= en Toni Whatshername got up to get her award, and you could see Chris & Susa= n... Susan looked thrilled, and Chris looked more bored than I've ever seen hi= m. He looked luscious when that MTV dork was interviewing him, too. Anyway= , the whole evening was a blast and Margret is supergroovycool! Definitely= a hootchie, if I've ever met one. ;-) (You should SEE the awesome Chris collages she has in her room!!! They're *gorgeous* and *huge*!) I finally read my digests a bit ago, and I was surprised to see that peop= le had been talking about that girl who was trying to tell me that Chris had tried to kiss her. Never fear kiddies... she was obviously an idiot. I doubt it was Matt's drum tech she was talking about, though... it was probably just yet another California CC wannabe. (Hmmm... methinks I sho= uld move my hootchie self out to Cali and check out what I'm missing. ;-) Heheheh... And finally, I'd like to apologize to Andy for my SP comment. It was unf= air for me to speak snidely about them, and I had totally forgotten that you lurked. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry... may I never ever get the chan= ce to peek up Chris Cornell's shorts if I ever do it again. ;-) Anyway And= y, I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't trying to disrespect you (or an= yone else) in any way by posting derogatory remarks about SP. =20 Shroom Girl, Diplomatic Hootchie Extraordinare "So you're a diplomat, Shroomy? Well, you'll never get anywhere with ME! I'm too smart to fall for any of your crazy hootchie schemes! =20 ...............What's that? A game of Strip Billiards? If you win, I ha= ve to let you take naked pictures of me... and if I win, you'll give me a certificate for a free massage by a certified SOMMSter, AND all the whipp= ed cream I can eat??? Whoah... good deal! You're on! =20 *Peeking in on Chris' thoughts:* =20 'This woman is crazy. There's no way she could beat me at pool... and I'= m going to take her for all the whipped cream she has! Damn, I'm smooth!' MuHaHAHaHaHaHaHA!!! <~~~ Chris' evil laugh." (Words not necessarily said in that order...) <~~~ my disclaimer Shroom Girl, Inc. =99 '96 And the lucky SOMMSter who gets to massage Chris (after I let him win at pool... rockstars get all whiny if you beat them at stuff) while I feed h= im whipped cream in interesting and innovative ways is.... Caryn, of course. Actually, Caryn and I are going to switch off between massaging and the whipped cream. And yeah, Eddie will still be taping... ;-) ------------------------------ From: Pamilyn1@aol.com Subject: Re: Ummmm... oops. ;-) Does that mean Shroomy's birthday is tomorrow?? Have a good one. ------------------------------ From: KRAKHEAD54@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Fork Article On one of the articles on Seth's page dated in late 96 Chris tells about the fork necklace. He said he recieved it from the late Shannon Hoon and the reason he had stopped wearing it is because he didn't want to wear something that belonged to someone that was dead. (Sorry to be so blunt but that's how he put it) That also is the reason for one of the rings he used to wear. It had belonged to Andy Wood. In a message dated 97-03-03 15:42:06 EST, mercylib@erie.net (Mercyhurst Prep Library) writes: << Yeah, is this urban myth or what? KAren Cornell, that's Chris's mom once said the fork was made and given to him by a family friend long before Shannon and Co. opened for Sg. But what do I know, right? At 02:29 PM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >I saw that someone mentioned about an article where Chris said that the >fork he wore was made by Shannon Hoon. >> peace/love/SG *~PAM~* - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: mercylib@erie.net (Mercyhurst Prep Library) To: redson@il-icom.net CC: somms@MIT.EDU Date: 97-03-03 15:42:06 EST Yeah, is this urban myth or what? KAren Cornell, that's Chris's mom once said the fork was made and given to him by a family friend long before Shannon and Co. opened for Sg. But what do I know, right? At 02:29 PM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: >I saw that someone mentioned about an article where Chris said that the >fork he wore was made by Shannon Hoon. What article is this? Is it on >Seths page? If anyone could tell me where I could read it I would >appreciate it. >Marie > > ------------------------------ From: Rita Bonofiglio Subject: ATTENTION CANADIANS.. if you don't get muchmusic, please ignore this useless information!! i just saw a commercial for the new music they are doing a show about "smoke and booze" in the music business...a tiny clip of chris at lolla in barrie was shown...he's said,"welcome to the shrine of beer"...i don't know if they're going to show any of the boys on the new music, but considering how much they love their smokes and beer... it won't hurt to check it out! its on tues. at 8:30--->WARNING: muchmusic has a bad reputation for airing commericals for shows that never end up on the day they advertise it for (did that make sense?)...so if you don't see it, consider yourself warned! trying to write an essay, but finding it impossible to concentrate as david usher (high five to all non-canadians who recognized that name!)stares back at her from the t.v. screen, - -----rita b. - ----------->queen of defense when it comes to susan silver ;-)!!!! ------------------------------ From: KRAKHEAD54@aol.com Subject: Fwd: lotsa different things (cont'd) In a message dated 97-03-03 19:51:21 EST, merlin.dwc@internetmci.com (merlin) writes: << >chris seems to write less from his heart and more from his mind You can tell by the way Chris sings many of his songs that they've come straight from his heart. I've learned more about him by listening to his songs than I'll ever learn from reading or watching interviews. And although I've never met him - and at times, reading everybody elses stories about how they have, I've felt bad about that - I feel like I already know him so well >> I know exactly how you feel when you say you feel like you already know him. I've never met him and I missed my chance to see them live but I feel like I understand where he's comming from. Maybe that's because I am also a very reclusive person and I like being left along. Just my thoughts. peace/love/SG *~PAM~* - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: merlin.dwc@internetmci.com (merlin) To: SOMMS@MIT.EDU Date: 97-03-03 19:51:21 EST >chris seems to write less from his heart and more from his mind You can tell by the way Chris sings many of his songs that they've come straight from his heart. I've learned more about him by listening to his songs than I'll ever learn from reading or watching interviews. And although I've never met him - and at times, reading everybody elses stories about how they have, I've felt bad about that - - I feel like I already know him so well. Don't get me wrong - he's one of the people that I want, and hope, to meet most in this lifetime... but sometimes I think I could never learn any more about him than I have by listening to his songs and seeing him perform live. >chris writes less from the first person perspective than billy... Nearly every song can I think of written by Chris was written in the 1st person - meaning he used "I" and not "he," "she," "they," whatever. But this has nothing to do w/ writing something that's from the heart anyway. If you write something in the first person, it doesn't mean you're writing about yourself. You could be writing through the eyes of a character, or a friend's eyes - anything. I've done it lots of times. And *that* doesn't mean what you're writing isn't personal - you may not have gone through the exact same situation that the character has, but you've felt the same way. And if you've written something in the 3rd person, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not personal, or about you either. There's so many different ways writers can express themselves, and so many different ways the readers, or listeners, can take it. Again, it pretty much all comes down to personal interpretations & opinions. There's my 5 cents. :-) That's all for now... ~Lorraine Nothing seems to break me no matter how far I fall nothing can break me at all. . . ------------------------------ From: Geoff Subject: Re: ATTENTION CANADIANS.. About the MuchMusic thing which features the clip of Chris onstage in Barrie: It appears that there will be no significant content regarding Soundgarden. The following is taken from Much's website: SMOKES N BOOZE Avi Lewis gives us a full hour dedicated to health issues concerning smokes n booze and the debate over sponsorship of events by tobacco and alcohol companies. He unveils the opinions of artists and people in the music industry towards cigarette and alcohol sponsorships of tours, events, arts funding and government legislation. Interviews include Hootie & The Blowfish, Neil Young, David Bowie, Luscious Jackson, Rush, Courtney Love of Hole and Andrew Cash. It would make sense to include an interview with SG, since they did take a quarter of a million to do a show for Molson last year. Hopefully we don't have to debate this again and have Matt personally write us to tell us to shut the fuck up. Geoff ------------------------------ From: merlin Subject: lotsa different things (cont'd) >chris seems to write less from his heart and more from his mind You can tell by the way Chris sings many of his songs that they've come straight from his heart. I've learned more about him by listening to his songs than I'll ever learn from reading or watching interviews. And although I've never met him - and at times, reading everybody elses stories about how they have, I've felt bad about that - - I feel like I already know him so well. Don't get me wrong - he's one of the people that I want, and hope, to meet most in this lifetime... but sometimes I think I could never learn any more about him than I have by listening to his songs and seeing him perform live. >chris writes less from the first person perspective than billy... Nearly every song can I think of written by Chris was written in the 1st person - meaning he used "I" and not "he," "she," "they," whatever. But this has nothing to do w/ writing something that's from the heart anyway. If you write something in the first person, it doesn't mean you're writing about yourself. You could be writing through the eyes of a character, or a friend's eyes - anything. I've done it lots of times. And *that* doesn't mean what you're writing isn't personal - you may not have gone through the exact same situation that the character has, but you've felt the same way. And if you've written something in the 3rd person, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not personal, or about you either. There's so many different ways writers can express themselves, and so many different ways the readers, or listeners, can take it. Again, it pretty much all comes down to personal interpretations & opinions. There's my 5 cents. :-) That's all for now... ~Lorraine Nothing seems to break me no matter how far I fall nothing can break me at all. . . ------------------------------ From: lecocke@txdirect.net Subject: Chris via Margret **** HAPPY BIRTHDAY, SHROOMY! WE LOVE YOU SUPERULTRAMEGA MUCH! :) **** SG content? Uh...Chris's birthday is 5 months and 17 days away (counting this month). Coincidentally, he'll be exactly 10 years older than our Shoomus. Wow. Maybe he'll tattoo that on his other arm...:) Kisses to the one and only leader of the CCHB, the one and only "red-headed devil in Texas", and the "most respectable SG fan", Shroomy. Luv Margret (and Chris). ps-you're definitely up there on the good egg list. ------------------------------ From: RachelMak@aol.com Subject: New York Mag While sitting on the subway tonight i was flipping through this weeks issue of New York magizine and aaahhh...its Chris...just a small pic of him (but very adorable) at the United Nations. Other musicians were there, including Sean Kinney, with Spin to announce plans for Sarajevo's cultural festival. "Where people are living in less fortunate situations than I am, everything is an issue on my mind " ~~Chris rachel :) ------------------------------ From: java4u@sos.net Subject: Re: safely held beneath the waves... >Mr. Dunn wrote: > >> For a lot of >> Soundgarden's songs it's the music (the acutal music, which we really >> haven't talked about yet) which gets me rockin' and keeps me buying >> records. And I'm very picky... even though the music will rock me without >> the emotion of the lyrics I'm just not totally 'there'. > When I listen to Soundgarden's songs, I almost never pay any >attention to the lyrics. It's the overall feel of the music that hits >me. Take a song like Flower, for example. The lyrics are so buried >beneath the music that while I'm aware there's a vocal line, and even >though several years after first hearing them I now know what the >words are, they just blend with everything else. Yet I can listen to >that song over and over and love it every time. > >My roommate and I listen to Badmotorfinger all the time and we just >shake our heads and say "I can't believe how fucking good this is." >But we never once talk about the lyrics. We always talk about the >music and the overall effect of the song. The end of Rusty Cage. The >opening crunch of Outshined and Room A Thousand Years Wide. The riff >and scream in New Damage. Slaves & Bulldozers and Jesus Christ Pose in >their overwhelming entirety. I agree with both Seth and Mr. Dunn, When I listen to a song for the first time, what will grab my attention is the way the song makes me feel the way it is presented! The way the song makes me feel is what really makes me want to listen to it again and again, and it never dies out! Take "Nevermind" from Nirvana if you will, no-one knew the words but when they heard that opening riff they knew it would change them. Everyone listened to it again and again! Once I've listened to a song long enough I will realize the words in SG's music and it's wonderful. They really illustrate a picture in my mind while I'm listening! later, Rachel Peace Love & Empathy ------------------------------ End of somms Digest [Volume 3 Issue 56] ***************************************