From: somms@mit.edu To: somms-digest@mit.edu Subject: Soundgarden Digest, Thursday, 14 Nov 1996 Reply-To: somms@mit.edu Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 03:43:30 EST Sender: saperl The Soundgarden Digest: Thursday, 14 Nov 1996 listadmin: saperl@mit.edu list archive: http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/archive/ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: email saperl@mit.edu Today's Topics: atlanta Re:Black Hole Sun video/Sexist Soundgarden Thank you Hello Ben And even more about Chicago... Re: Question for Seth..... Jumping off cloud nine. Re: every one likes a fight! Re: the real other side of the moshing coin Re: the real other side of the moshing coin Re: the real other side of the moshing coin Re: what it takes to step through... hey there everyone!!! Any subject other than chris voice or hair RE: Jumping off cloud nine. the best approach to writing songs - was:Re: what it takes to step through... Me 'n Ben, eatin' peanuts and swiggin' beer Re: another link Re: Ben Re: Chris, you're so trendy... ;-) RE: Chicago Trib Review Re: And even more about Chicago... Hail,Hail To All SOMMSters distorted media Re: Hail,Hail To All SOMMSters Re: Michael Apple (BHS) :::::hum::::: psyched for NY shows WOW Simmer down there... Picture!!! Re:Chicago, the list, and assorted ramblings Re: I can count it on my fingers Ben who??? Re: the best approach to writing songs - was:Re: what it takes to step through. Re: Details!!!! Re: Whats wrong with my hair?? Right on Eliza!! Detroit show highlights All hail Kim and his Tool........shirt! hey there... More Pigeonhed news Re: Michael Apple (BHS) Re: Swallow My Pride Re: Swallow My Pride lyrics with no meanings? chicago pics... Re: Jumping off cloud nine. Re: lyrics with no meanings? Brandeis Show Question for Seth.....Thank You for Jamesetta.....Congratulations for all other Detroit Show Rocked Re: Soundgarden Digest, Wednesday, 13 Nov 1996 All those Chicago reveiws! whatsoever I've feared has come to life... RE: Detroit Show Rocked RE: lyrics with no meanings? BUTOW live hair re: kim gorgeous Response to Chris looking like a woman (NOT!) re: meet and greet aversion band re: Chicago reviewer re: Rolling with Eddie re: Green River thread re: stereotyping SG men and women re: Shroom's finger-lickin.... re: DeeDee's music money question . Re: Detroit Show Rocked RE: Jumping off cloud nine. ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Luck's Last Match Subject: atlanta Um, anyone going to the atlanta show please contact me, Dee Dee, or jeremy (the original Limo Wreck) in order to set up sommsfest atlanta. Maria, ya tengo tu nombre en la lista. And if this has been said before, lo siento. Because of massive amounts of schoolwork with coinciding due dates, i haven't been able to read the digest scrolls of the past three days. laters. -j Oh, and in celebration of my birthday, i had a tuning day with my guitar in which i played about 20 sg songs, in about 8 different tunings.... "Stand up and everyone will see your holiness" -Soundgarden. ------------------------------ From: Deborah Baker Subject: Re:Black Hole Sun video/Sexist Soundgarden At 18:51 12/11/96 -0500, Michael Apple wrote: >Date sent: 12-NOV-1996 18:39:20 Thanks for responding to my post Michael. > I hated the video for Black Hole Sun. It has absolutely nothing to do >with the song's intention: to convey the idea of the misuse of sex to >escape problems. (Well, at least, that's what I got out of it. Anyone >else got any theories on Black Hole Sun? Let's hear them.) I still think BHS is a great video, even if it was played to death on MTV. As to it's meaning, a couple of weeks ago, on British TV, Chris Cornell said that he always smiled to himself when audiences sang along to BHS because they don't have any idea what it means. *Because* it doesn't mean anything! He thinks of if as a sort of musical or lyrical landscape and Howard Greehalgh just came up with his own visual landscape. (I can't remember his exact words - help me out here Sabrina!) I'm sure I have read other stuff where CC says it's just words - he likes to 'paint' with words sometimes. But, once the song is out there it is up to you to decide what it means to you. You also wrote: > Seriously though, does anyone think that they would have made Susan >Silver their manager if they were sexist? And don't say it was only >because she was dating Chris, because he expressed that he thought it would >be a bad idea because of their closeness. The reason they made her their >manager was because she is VERY GOOD at managing bands. Michael, I, for one, wouldn't dream of saying that. She was already a booker on the Seattle club scene, when Chris was grilling fish and singing dead people's greatest hits with The Shemps ( I think):-) UK Deb ------------------------------ From: Michele Subject: Thank you Hi, Even though I did NOT attend the somms chicago fest. I would like to thank some people, Frist of all I would like to thank everybody for their reveiws n making the experience feel so real. But the most important I would like to thank ERIN n silver managemnet for letting some of the sommesters have this experience n Seth of all people for making such an awesome webpage. Kathie for writing the letter that made this all happen. oh n thanks eliza for asking about the bug fetish for me."little creatures" hehehehehehe. He MUST have a sand n feather fetish then or someone in the band does. You know what I would have said or wanted to say? Oh come chris hehehehe. I know I am not suppose to know. But I will tell you about about my paper fetish if you tell me yours. hehehehe.(Actaully I wouldn't dare to say that I have WAY too much respect for them n The other sommsetrs I wouldn't want to ruin anyones experience becuz of my silliness.) Good thing I was not there somebody would have wanted to slap me. No need to I will do the honors of slapping myself. Go eliza n deedee!!!!!!!! Oh n I am so proud of deedee for asking if she could lick matt. UUuuuummmm n I want to thank deedee for getting me autographs n not forgetting about me. Thank you deedee. Ok well other people on the list who didn't get to go I think we should ALL write Silver Management n thank them just for allowing some of the people on this list have this experience. I think Susan Silver is an excellent role model n being younger then her I kinda look up to her. If only all they would do this every once in awhile so we could all get to go. So there would be no envy, I know it can be kinda sucky wishing you were there to the sommsters who could NOT go,like me. I am gald you all enjoyed yourselves while I ate pie thinking of everybody. Ok back to the cave for me. Hi foo! Hi Ryan! I am just a babbling fool really, Michele ------------------------------ From: fmeu600e@liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Hello Dear all, Hello this is my first message although I have infact been watching you for ages on someone elses machine (creepy eh?). Two things;a) Chris was right to cut his hair. He doesn't want to end up looking Status Quo-esque. Old men and long hair don't mix.........not that Chris is old.....God, my first message and I've already offended everyone! b) Everyone has so much to say. Once upon a blue moon there used to be a few short messages. I'm too lazy to read the long messages (except Shroom's)...can someone write a short one please. Kisses Jen xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ------------------------------ Subject: Ben From: Ben Timberlake Hm. It's an interesting time on the somms list. We have had two very close encounters with the band by members of the list. One very good, one very bad. I think, and hope, that the good will prevail. Most of us recognize the bad incident as an accident and have let it roll. I do still feel bad for caryn and admire her for not taking legal action against Ben. She is the type of fan that a band really wants. But, these two events and the shows on saturday and sunday got me thinking about Ben. The man is an enigma. He's my favorite member of the band (they all rock). Apart from writing the coolest songs (imho, no need to flame), he also does some of the strangest things on stage and in interviews. I'm gonna conjecture a little bit here. On stage Ben is a straight punk. He just goes nuts. To him, being on stage now doesn't live up to the old days in clubs where the audience is as much a part of the show as the band. On sunday night, he was beckoning to some of the people at the front trying to get them on stage, mouthing, "there are five of you, one of you will make it." Well, they didn't ever try, but I would have if I had been at the front. I know, it seems kind of uncool, but maybe I yearn for that audience interaction as well. One of my favorite parts of Motorvision is where this kid jumps on stage and high-fives Chris. Yeah I got to meet the band backstage and then watch them from the wings (matt druming during JCP, no less), but something about becoming an extension of the performance appeals to me. Back to Ben. He was really nice when I met him backstage. I said, "I'm Ben to. Benjamin, in my case." And he said simply, "Ben-jammin'" And when I told him I really appreciated the music they make and that I hoped they would do it for a long time to come, he said, "We can't help it. It's too much fun." See? He has _fun_. He tried to get the crowd riled up on Sunday night by knocking on Chicago (succesfully I think). And then when Chris told the crowd to shout whatever they wanted, Ben said, "You paid to say it, dipfuck." I think I was the only person in the crowd yelling "yeah Ben". Too many people don't recognize the facetiouness this band exhibits. Then, when the band came back out for the encore, he sets his guitar on one of speakers like a rifle and pretends to pick off members of the audience. At that point, I began to worry about Ben pulling a Roger Waters-type of breakdown someday, but I don't think Ben's that melodramatic. Well, I'm not sure I've convinced anyone who didn't think so before that Ben is really cool, but at least I've justified it to myself. Who was it that was going to set up the Unofficial Ben Shepherd Page? I'm willing to help. -- Ben (Help me think of a nickname since everyone at sommsfest chicago had to refer to me by my first and last name) Ben Timberlake Why does important news always Northwestern University come when I'm half asleep? Medill School of Journalism CUBS # 1479, 1109 ***btimlake@nwu.edu*** -30- http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~bft718 "So remember when you're feeling very small and insecure how amazingly unlikely is your birth. And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger-all down here on Earth." -- Eric Idle, "The Galaxy Song" ------------------------------ From: Candy Haun Subject: And even more about Chicago... > Chris said; "SG posters in your bathroom? That's pretty weird" And I said, > "yep and I get naked in front of them...that's what's scary!!!" Now that > thought send him scurrying away. Jeez, Toni, I wonder why Chris left in such a hurry? I mean, you were just talking about getting naked and I was standing next to him staring at him like one of the flesh-eaters in Night of the Living Dead. Guess he must have suddenly remembered something important he had to do. > Kim is absolutely gorgeous. He has the most unbelievable eyes and that > smile that makes you go weak in the knees. Yes, Jamie, I was surprised that Kim is much more handsome in person. He looks a lot younger, too than he does in photos. > There is a sub plot to all of this and that was Sommsfest Slumber Party!! > It went on all weekend at my house! 7 SIS's(Sisters in Soundgarden) all got > together to meet, do a little female bonding, worship Soundgarden and mess > up toni and Rita's house!! Oh yeah!!! I am still reeling! The husband was astounded that we could listen to, watch, and yap about SG for days on end. But aside from all that, these are some truly fine, fun women. I cant tell you how wonderful it was being with my SIS!! And what service we got at the Loud Love Hotel! Toni, Rita, Jamie, Bonnie, Andrea, Dee Dee--you guys are the best! > Chris doing pelvic thrust at one point...yes, ladies I said pelvic thrust!!!! OH MY GOD!! Reading this at work brought on a major flashback. I damn near toppled out of my chair! This entire weekend was so amazing. Maybe the most amazing thing was meeting my fellow sommsters. Everyone keeps saying that, but it's the truth. I know there were a lot of you I didnt talk to much because I am pretty shy, but what a great bunch of people! I cant stop thinking about the whole experience--Im in a fog, like Chris said he was at the shows (only Im feeling that I'm drinking, even though I'm sober). I know, a lot of you are thinking, yeah, you not only can't stop thinking about it, but you cant stop talking about it either, but how often will something like this happen? Before this, I had never seen SG and I loved reading the reviews and all about what went on with the sommsters who met for shows. Its the next best thing to being there. Rushing out on my break to buy Details, Candy PS: I am old enough to be his mother, but I will confirm what others have already said. Seth is a babe. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Question for Seth..... From: seth > Please, Seth, give us some more details. Did they (who?) just come = > straight out and invite you to go? Did you mention you wanted to go and = > then they offered? How did it all come about? How long had you known = > about it? Whose idea was it to surprise the other Sommsters? When I first found out that the list gathering was going to meet the band, thanks to Kathie's letter and the management, I emailed Erin and thanked her for the gesture, even though I unfortunately wasn't going to be there. She emailed me about 9 days before the show and asked why I wasn't going, and the next day, offered me the chance, which of course I accepted. They covered the flight/hotel/tickets, which was just amazing. It was Erin's idea to keep it a surprise. :) Still recovering from the whole experience, seth ------------------------------ From: "V. Anselmo" Subject: Jumping off cloud nine. After the adrenaline rush calmed and some quiet time to reflect, I'm not quite as pleased with the Chicago experience as I was yesterday. Matt hurt me deeply and I've had it up to here with Ben. This is my personal commentary -- not in any way meant to detract from the euphoria of my friends or the awe I feel with respect to Matt, Ben, Chris and Kim as musicians, songwriters or performers. My first wound was incurred from Matt on Saturday during the meet-and- greet in SG's dressing room. We exchanged 'hellos' and as I handed Matt my SOMMS for his autograph, he gave me a wide-eyed, open-mouthed, double-take and said, "Your that girl from Barcelona." I said, "Yes". Matt continued, "And from the Hater show." Again, I said, "Yes" and smiled. Matt shook his head, scrunched up his mouth and rolled his eyes before looking away. I restricted my 'What did I deserve that look for?' comment to only a perplexed thought in my mind. I don't expect a pat on the back for the extremes I've gone to to see SG perform live, but I also don't expect to be made to feel like a fool. I do it for me. I need to. Fellow SOMMSters, my name is Vikki and I'm a Soundgarden addict. I'm just a human being with a natural desire to pursue those things in life that make me feel complete and joyful -- those emotions are often granted to me in generous doses through Soundgarden's music. I know very well that Matt did not intentionally hurt me -- he just has such a damn expressive face that his thoughts seep through. I know what a look like that means and it made me feel small, freaky and embarrassed. My second awkward experience was provided by Ben on Sunday night as I stood with Erin on stage. In Tuesday's digest, a SOMMSter wrote: "Ben starts destroying the stage. When he topples the 8 foot amps behind him we scream his name. When the poor roadies try to set them back up, Ben sees it as an animal whose kill is being taken by another animal. He races across the stage and jumps on top of his kill. He is the hunter and he is master of all." Well, actually, all we were witness to was a world class tantrum. Realistically, Ben was being a spoiled, condescending, menacing, power-tripping little prick. Ben's bass was improperly tuned. He flipped out, ripped the bass off his body and hurled it at his tech. When the guy attempted to retrieve the bass, Ben CHASED him backstage. Security ran after them. Erin grabbed my arm, pulled me close and said, "We might have to leave." I nodded in agreement as she maintained a very protective grip on my arm and watched for Ben to reemerge. After about 10 seconds, Ben returned, still cursing and flailing. Ben entered the soundboard area where myself, Erin and the board operator stood. It seemed as if Ben was coming AT US. Our muscles tightened and the large soundman quickly got the hell out of Ben's way. Erin gripped me even tighter and closer as she twisted her head over her left shoulder to watch Ben's every volatile move. Two monster-size roadies cowering next to me tried to make themselves invisible by squishing themselves up against the wall. Ben snatched a spare bass from the selection of 5 or so hanging behind the soundboard. His tech's attempts to help him tune were met with curses and threats. Ben finally returned to the stage, still tuning, as the tech once again tried to retrieve the bass Ben tossed at him earlier. Huge mistake. While the tech was in a crouched position, Ben came swiftly towards him as if he was going to kick the guy in the head. It was solely a mocking gesture. Ben stepped towards the guy, not to actually kick him, but to watch him back away on his knees, twitching and squinting, protecting his head with his arms. The tech looked like a puppy being punished for peeing on the rug. It was pathetic. Security charged at Erin and myself and the two cowering roadies next to me and shouted, "EVERYBODY OFF THE STAGE. EVERYBODY OFF THE STAGE NOW." I couldn't believe the infantile ego tantrum I just witnessed and further, I couldn't believe Erin was apologizing to me. Your all familiar with that mortified smile that comes across peoples faces when their dog is humping your leg and they attempt to make light of it by laughing, 'Oh, he's just such a friendly dog. He likes you.' -- well that's the look poor Erin had on her face as she attempted to rationalize what we just experienced. She said, (insert awkward smile here) "I'm really sorry we had to leave so soon. It was for your own safety. Sometimes Ben likes to throw things." (insert awkward laugh) Ben needs: 1) medication, 2) therapy and 3) a good, hard, swift kick in the ass. He publicly threatened and humiliated an employee and terrorized the soundman, Erin, myself, two roadies, two techs and two frantic security guards ...all because his bass wasn't properly tuned??? I'm not impressed. All those present (excluding myself) were Ben's employees. They have no choice but to be submissive and endure his fits. What alternative do they have? "Oh, geez boss, sorry I kicked your ass in front of 5,000 of your fans. No hard feeling right?" What bullshit. -Vikki :( ------------------------------ From: little sun Subject: Re: every one likes a fight! On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, KERAK wrote: > > I find it interesting that you comment like that, considering that you > wrote earlier, making for more juvenile comments. Making fun of a guy's > penis size on the list? What are you? A big baby? And what are you? Illiterate? I NEVER said anything f the sort. I think you should learn to read message headers a little more carefully in future because if its one thing that ABSOLUTELY WINDS ME UP ABOUT THE INTERNET it's people like you shooting off at the hip, having a go at people for things they didn't even say simply because they read a message header incorrectly. > Let's leave all comments like that off the list, please. If you are > going to discuss something, keep it to the facts and your opinions, don't > insult people. Please. Learn to read message headers. YOu only sound stupid when you get shown up. Like now. > By the way, I have a solution to this whole problem. Fopp can just > come over to your house and whip it out. Make sure you hav a ruler... > (Just kidding. :) ) Hehehe. Hehehe indeed. - -me ------------------------------ From: little sun Subject: Re: the real other side of the moshing coin On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, KERAK wrote: > The passage from Soundgarden: New Metal Crown reads as: "Chris didn't > see the girl last night almost fainting because she almost touched him," > Ben Shepherd told Kerrang! "God, it's so silly! I usually kick girls like > that or spit on them when I see them pull shit like that." I know. I have the interview. > > What Ben is commenting on here is the idolization of Chris. All of a > sudden, because Soundgarden had a hit record, Chris became this sex symbol, > and all the girls swooned over him, like he was a pop star or something. Again. I know. > Ben is defending Chris, not being jealous. Whatever. > WHat you need to understand is that Soundgarden had gone from being a > part of a music community in Seattle, to being a major-label, partially > mainstream rock band (not pop, that's what Whitney Houston is. :) ) What > they wanted was the respect of their fans, not worship. I was aware of the fact, being a fan of the band for about six years now, but thanks for the History lesson anyway, sir. Any other obvious truisms you'd like to reveal to me whilst you're about it? > What Ben was saying was that he despised the worshipping fly-by-night > fans, who didn't know their earlier work and didn't care. He wants the > fans to see them as people, not idols. By spitting on and kicking fans, he > is expressing his feelings. Fine, if that's his opinion, but if it was me, I wouldn't care if fans wanted to woship me or not. In fact, I'd let 'em. In fact, I bet Chris himself never had much to say about it, and I bet that if it were happening to Ben as well, he wouldn't be quite so indignant about it. Hmm... - -me ------------------------------ From: little sun Subject: Re: the real other side of the moshing coin On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Dan Chalich wrote: > > How can anyone not like moshing? Especially at > concerts like Soundgarden. Unless you're a major pussy I would highly > recemending jumping in the pit. Oh dear... > > > P.S. > Does anyone know where I can find the song "Nazi Driver?" On Ultramega Ok. - -me ------------------------------ From: little sun Subject: Re: the real other side of the moshing coin On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, KERAK wrote: > But, ya know, some people are frightened of it, so you've gotta let > them express their feelings on it too. Personally, I think there are more > pressing matters to worry about than moshing. Or maybe, other people just don't enjoy getting the crap kicked out of them for their money. But I can see the other side of the coin too. If I was a brainless thug I'd love moshing as well. - -me ------------------------------ From: little sun Subject: Re: what it takes to step through... On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, psyche wrote: > I have to agree with you here; I hardly think that writing more songs > than the rest justifies Chris as being an egotist. I'm sure that if > the other members of SG had a problem with it, they'd tell him straight out. > It's not like Chris is their boss and they don't have a say in anything. > Maybe they do have a million songs stashed away somewhere, and maybe > they're dying to release them, but it's also possible they heard the > songs Chris wrote and actually liked them more than their own. > I'm sure they wouldn't have let Chris put songs they don't like on any record. Agreed. Its not as if Soundgarden are like Smashing Pumpkins where Billy-boy doesn't let anyone apart from himself write songs (apart from the odd one or two). - -me ------------------------------ From: "Wilson Vanessa Faye" Subject: hey there everyone!!! Hey everyone, this is my first message, so it'll probably be retarded.... can't wait for the atlanta show, it's gonna kick ass!!!I know I'm a girl and all, but moshing kicks ass, and the crowd surfing kicks ass....what else...Lollapallooza '96 ruled- I surfed twice, yelling and screaming at the crowds during "Fell on Black Days", got up to the front where I had the perfect view of Chris. I wanna play in a band, and I'm yet to find the dudes I belong with..... Vanessa (e-mail at vfwilson@catawba.edu) ------------------------------ From: BIDOLS@aol.com Subject: Any subject other than chris voice or hair Yes I am new to the list, but it is already very tiring to read the same stuff everyday, I am also at fault since I do not write very often. But to see day in and day out about what chris looks like......it gets kinda old after awhile, so I figured I might help abd talk about something else. I'm pissed, I missed the Detroit show, I moved out here, 7 months ago from Pennsylvania, and I have not met anyone yet likes SG as much as I do. Disappointingly, the last SG show I've been to was in 1991 when SG opened up for GNR at the Spectrum in Philly. I also saw them previously at the Trocadero in Philly, an old burlesque theater near China town on Arch Street. Both shows were on the BMF tour. That show was 100 times better than the one at the Spectrum, since the Troc can only fit about 2000 -2500 people. I was so close to the band I could have Spit on Matt, not that I would have. Has anyone else seen the band in a small venue? Someone previously wrote that at the Detroit show last night, the band came back on to play 15 minutes of feedback, as well as JCP. They also did that at the Troc show in 1991. After five minutes in the feedback session though, Kim stopped playing while the band kept up. Kim proceeded to walk around the stage, lighting matches and then handing them to people in the audience. I remember the experience being mesmerizing. Thought I'd share My greatest SG experience with you all Anybody know of a SOMMs disc for sale? "no quote" Mark ------------------------------ From: The Shogun Woo Subject: RE: Jumping off cloud nine. At 08:15 AM 11/14/96 +-10-30, you wrote: >Vikki, thanks for that insight. Wow. I'm rather dumbstruck - don't really know what to say. You didn't mention the music at all, the way the band played, the part that makes you "feel complete and joyful". I really do hope you DID get that from going to the Chicago concerts. > >Of course I can see why Ben's behaviour would cloud your happiness at having been to yet another Soundgarden concert. I remember asking why it was that some members on this list thought it so wonderful that Ben abused and cursed and swore at the Metallica crowd at Lollapollooza, but no one else seemed to see it my way. Ben - the hero! How great he is that he can act like an animal (spitting) and an arrogant pig!! > >Like Vikki, however, what I might think about Ben (and I really don't HAVE an opinion, seeing as I haven't met or even seen the guy) doesn't change the way I feel about the music this wonderful band creates. I will also always be in awe of that. > >Hmmmmmmm. This is certainly food for thought. > >Carolyn. > > Regarding Ben's actions at Lolla, I could understand why he got pissed. If people were throwing shit and trying to spit on me, I would get pretty damn riled up as well. However, it has been stated that these outbursts are just a front and that they are for stage effect. I'm not too sure about that. Like you said, it doesn't really matter if the guy "might be" an asshole. As long as he and the band make good music, who cares? Shogun ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Dunn" Subject: the best approach to writing songs - was:Re: what it takes to step through... > Agreed. Its not as if Soundgarden are like Smashing Pumpkins where > Billy-boy doesn't let anyone apart from himself write songs (apart from > the odd one or two). > > -me I think Billy pretty much lets anyone who wants to write songs, James Iha has written close to 12 for Mellon Collie, which is about an album's worth and about 5 before that, alone (most of which James sings on, thereby he's able to have an outlet as well). D'arcy hasn't written any songs, but maybe that's because she's not that good of a writer... Sometimes the best approach to songwriting is to have one person do it. I mean, a lot of Soundgarden songs are like that. The emotions come truer if you don't have to filter it though everyone's ideas, and fortunately (unlike Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and the like) very few Smashing Pumpkins songs are lost due to the fact that they have to filter it like that, so instead of maybe 16 songs we get from Soundgarden, fans of SP can get up to like 49 songs in a year, yeah, a few throwaways, but the advantage is they get huge diversity, more diversity than any other "popular alternative band" today. On a side note, I don't think any of them are being egotistical, I mean, if these people are getting 'bullied' by the lead singer, then they need to wake up and smell the coffee, they are adults, they can handle themselves. Most of these people could walk away in a second if they wanted to. So I don't think it's necessary a need to have this huge collaboration with the whole band, I think it's just another way of writing. The things that matter are if the songs are good, if the band is happy, and if the fans appreciate the effort. All the other stuff is for the tabloidish rock magazines. just a thought, nd. ------------------------------ From: Gene Candelaria Subject: Me 'n Ben, eatin' peanuts and swiggin' beer Well, There I was, backstage at a recent SG gig. There was a full bar. I mean a BAR! Not just provisions. It must have been 100 feet long. Like the infamous Long Bar, and it was packed with people. In comes Ben. He cops a squat at the bar and *everyone* buys him a beer. He offers to share them with people, among those; myself. After some time has passed, a spot opens up next to Ben. I grab it. He offers to share a bowl of peanuts and we start chatting. Ben starts joking and we're all getting quite wild. Ben starts throwing shoes at people. He throws a huarachie (Mexican sandal) at me and it smacks me square in the chest. I take off my Converse and chuck them at Ben knocking him in the head once. He picks up a brew, places his thumb inside the open neck, and proceeds to shake the Hell out of it. He aims it at me and beer splats me in the face. I do the same to him. Peanuts, marachino cherries, limes and kiwis(?) start flying. The place is a riot. But, everyone's having a blast!! Eventually, the place settles down and everyone's laughing and carrying on about the great time we're having. Then, my toilet starts gurgling and I wake up! Anyone?.. - -- - -- ----- \___/ ----- ; > Gene Candelaria . . . . o o o o o _______ * _____ o |Del Mar| * ____==== ]OO|_n_n__][. |SOMMS| * [________]_|__|________)< | FEST| 17 days... oo oo 'oo OOOO-| oo\\_ ~~~|~~~ +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ _____________________ ------------------------------ From: mshaw@lib.occ.cccd.edu (RoseeMisst) Subject: Re: another link >I was browsing the web once again looking for anything SG-related >(see, this is what people, who *don't* get to meet SG, do ;-)) >when I found this page called "Rocktoons". >It's a collection of cartoon images, drawn by a guy called Tyler Martin, >featuring most bands, including SG. The SG one is pretty amusing, >the theme being a "sound garden", with Chris in overalls and Kim with >a wheelbarrow and Ben and Matt.....erm......kneeling on the ground, >so go see for yourself: > >www.crl.com/~tyman/rocktoons/soundgarden.html > >I know I'm not the best person to be giving out links (yes, I remember that >mlb incident), but this one is absolutely correct. > >and if you have time, check out the NIN and Marilyn Manson cartoons as >well. They're pretty good. > >sabrina > How cool! Very soon I am to also have a SG drawing to be put into seth's art gallery. I'm in the process of finding particular costumes on the net, so it will be a while RoseeMisst ------------------------------ From: andrew christensen Subject: Re: Ben > But, these two events and the shows on saturday and sunday got me > thinking about Ben. The man is an enigma. He's my favorite member of the > band (they all rock). Apart from writing the coolest songs (imho, no need > to flame), he also does some of the strangest things on stage and in > interviews. Ben's songs are by far my favorite. Especially when he does both music AND lyrics. He is the best ever. > I'm gonna conjecture a little bit here. On stage Ben is a straight punk. > He just goes nuts. To him, being on stage now doesn't live up to the old > days in clubs where the audience is as much a part of the show as the > band. On sunday night, he was beckoning to some of the people at the > front trying to get them on stage, mouthing, "there are five of you, one > of you will make it." Well, they didn't ever try, but I would have if I > had been at the front. I know, it seems kind of uncool, but maybe I yearn > for that audience interaction as well. One of my favorite parts of > Motorvision is where this kid jumps on stage and high-fives Chris. Yeah I > got to meet the band backstage and then watch them from the wings (matt > druming during JCP, no less), but something about becoming an extension > of the performance appeals to me. Believe me, i tried to get up when he said that. But i was very crammed in against that bar, and when i did push myself up, the big bouncer in front of me said, "Don't even think about it." > He tried to get the crowd riled up on Sunday night by knocking on Chicago > (succesfully I think). And then when Chris told the crowd to shout > whatever they wanted, Ben said, "You paid to say it, dipfuck." I think I > was the only person in the crowd yelling "yeah Ben". Too many people > don't recognize the facetiouness this band exhibits. Trust me, you weren't the only one. i have always been a ben-worshipper and i thought the way he acted was awesome. He played an entire song with just his middle finger! And the way he spit on seth...he doesn't do that stuff maliciously, he does it completely as a gag. He totally smiled at seth after he spit, and he didn't like *ptoo!* spit but rather just kind of launched it into the air. seth could have probably gotten a picture of it! He totally ripped on that huge mean bouncer who got scared out of his mind. So so cool...even when he was supposed to be singing his lines in spoonman he just shouted stuff like "this is the most underrated town in the country." i think that is why i love Hater so much, and like it says in the Hempilation CD "Hater delivers tongue- in-cheek meanness just because they wanna." That is how Ben is and that is why he is my fave. > Then, when the band came back out for the encore, he sets his guitar on > one of speakers like a rifle and pretends to pick off members of the audience. > At that point, I began to worry about Ben pulling a Roger Waters-type of > breakdown someday, but I don't think Ben's that melodramatic. > Well, I'm not sure I've convinced anyone who didn't think so before that > Ben is really cool, but at least I've justified it to myself. Who was it > that was going to set up the Unofficial Ben Shepherd Page? I'm willing to help. > -- Ben (Help me think of a nickname since everyone at sommsfest > chicago had to refer to me by my first and last name) This is so cool we should talk more just about Ben. And Ben-Jammin, your nickname should be Tot Finder. :) Alright bye now. andrew ------------------------------ From: mshaw@lib.occ.cccd.edu (RoseeMisst) Subject: Re: Chris, you're so trendy... ;-) > Well kiddies... I've devoted this evening to drooling over those new >pictures in Details of Chris. I realized (mostly by glancing through the >rest of the magazine) that Chris is sporting the new "look." The new, hip, >fashion-runway, everyone-wants-to-be-cool "look." And then I remembered what >the media is calling this new appearance/trend. They're calling it the >"heroin look." (Anyone see Trainspotting?) I wonder if Chris is aware of >this? I mean... the whole "shadow eyed, gaunt cheeks, wasted away... heroin >look"... it's kinda scary. Has anyone else noticed this? I know, I know... >Chris doesn't do his own make-up. But what does Susan think of it? Surely >she must be aware that Chris is being trussed up like a guy in a CK One >advertisement. All he needs is Kate Moss displaying her waif butt next to >him, and he could be hawking cologne in a big way. (Don't get me wrong... >he's totally gorgeous in the pictures, as always.) Hmmm... maybe I'm just >being paranoid. You'll have to excuse me, it's the drugs. ;-) Ok, I guess >I'm done babbling now. Love me, bye-bye... > > Shroomy > Shit. Let's hope that Chris doesn't go that trendy route. I saw Trainspotting too(fantastic movie!), and Chris is beginning to have that Evan McGregor look. The heroin look is definitely in. It may be considered art, but what kind of message does that send to little kids or anorexics?? RoseeMisst ------------------------------ From: Q McCallum Subject: RE: Chicago Trib Review :band leader Chris Cornell tossed = :off an unaccompanied, incomplete :version of the band's biggest hit, :'Black Hole Sun.' "Tossed off??" "incomplete??" Hmmm.... then maybe it was the secondhand pot-smoke that made me think that was the most intense rendition of BHS I'd ever heard... Slightly off the topic of the review, are there any people on this list who saw them both last weekend and in June '94 at the Aragon? I was able to draw a few parallels/comparisons between the two shows... The coolest was that they closed with 'Jesus Christ Pose' this time, having opened with it in '94. FOr some reason that made my whole Soundgarden experince more, well, complete... :) ____________________________________ [http://sushi.uchicago.edu/~q-mccallum ** qmccallu@midway.uchicago.edu] "De mourir de faim, ca veut dire qu'on n'a jamais goute des choses de speciales. Ca veut dire que cette vie n'etait rien...." ------------------------------ Subject: Re: And even more about Chicago... From: jsimpson@mail03.mitre.org (Jamesetta Simpson) >> Chris doing pelvic thrust at one point...yes, ladies I said pelvic thrust!!!! > >OH MY GOD!! Reading this at work brought on a major flashback. I damn >near toppled out of my chair! Yeahhhhhhh, if I close my eyes I can see him.......no shirt, one leg up on the speaker, and MMMmmmm pelvic movements from the land of dreams. >before this, I had never seen SG and I >loved reading the reviews and all about what went on with the sommsters >who met for shows. It's the next best thing to being there. Same here Candy.. Each time Soundgarden was in my area I wasn't. So reading all the reviews by other members of this list was my only way to enjoy the live experiences. That is why I say to all of you going to the shows over the next month - PLEASE just because you don't get to meet the band up close don't think we don't want to hear your review. I love to read how you see the band and how you relate to the music. >Rushing out on my break to buy Details, Well so far you have hear from Shroom and myself that the pictures are "TO, TO, TO" much. And since we both have absolutely the best taste in men you know these pictures are worth the $$$. So get yourself out and buy the mag... Jamie (Village Idiot/SOMMs Mom) ------------------------------ From: atnadzri@vax1.tristate.edu Subject: Hail,Hail To All SOMMSters Hi all..... Emmm..looks like the aftershock of the Chicago SOMMsfest is still pretty much heavy..:-)Anyway..i've enjoyed your reviews..Yep..Toni..you're right...the lady at the GUest list Door wasnt NICE.Too bad..maybe ..one day.... Anyawy...Eliza..thanx for the tickets..if it wast for you i would have never had this wonderful experience..cant wait till my pics are devloped.... Question:are SG gonna tour in 97?Dream tour...PJ palying a double bill with SG and Chris dueting with Eddie on HS.What a cool dream....... Question:Can someone tell me how can i get myself a SOMMs tee shirt??? Question:Where can i find a full version of the JCP video? One last note....Eliza...your comments bout the 1)fans and 2)the band was certainly spot on..i could'n have agreed more..... Thanx.... Andri ------------------------------ From: Andrea Pinto Subject: distorted media Actually, the quote was, "..with fucking cartoon characters." ; ) I'll send in my chicago review soon-if you guys can stomach one more. >I read a quote from Chris in the paper today. It seems Chris is still a >little ticked that the Bulls beat the Sonics in last year's NBA Finals. I'm >not sure of the exact quote, but he said something like, "At least we don't >have a player who makes movies with cartoon characters." Funny, especially >if you're a Bulls fan like me. :-) >Vasant Andrea Pinto apinto@adobe.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Hail,Hail To All SOMMSters From: jsimpson@mail03.mitre.org (Jamesetta Simpson) >Question:Can someone tell me how can i get myself a SOMMs tee shirt??? Thanks Andri for reminding me.. I want to say out here that Dena's shirts were very nice. I was able to see both her and Shithead Nothingman's shirts together. I didn't get a SOMMs shirt because I got burned bad by Mr. Nothingman. I was really happy to see Dena did a great job and showed that there are good people in this world.. Dena if you decide to do more shirts I'll be the first in line. Thanks for restoring my shatter faith on this whole mess. Jamie (Village Idiot/SOMMs Mom) ------------------------------ From: Brian Lucas What do you all think about Chris in the latest issue of DETAILS mag.? It's the same kind of article that I've seen written over and over again. They really don't know what to write about other than the fact that Chris is extremely reclusive, and he is part of the difinitive seattle scene, and blah blah blah. It's not his fault, but maybe the interview shouldn't have been done. Esp. with him the only focus of attention. I don't know. How about some other thoughts? This is insignificant really, but does anyone have an idea of why he's so fucking thin lately?! ------------------------------ From: clmiller@mail.usachoice.net (Chris Miller) Subject: Re: Michael Apple (BHS) Black Hole Sun is meant to be a commentary on the governmental and institutional vices that exist in today's society. The opening lines IN MY EYES INDISPOSED IN DISGUISE AS NO ONE KNOWS HIDES THE FACE LIES THE SNAKE THE SUN IN MY DISGRACE is meant to show how people are never really what they seem. I think that Chris Cornell subscribes to the psychological theory that people are inherently evil, and that a facade is often erected in order to hide those dirty shameful deeds that we humans are so good at performing. TIMES ARE GONE FOR HONEST MEN these words are rather simplistic in revealing how far down the drain our society and culture has gone. {Ever met an honest politician?} AND SOMETIMES FAR TOO LONG FOR SNAKES ever notice how the political ass-holics (Newt G,Jesse Helms, etc) seem to stay in office forever and ever? HANG MY HEAD DROWN MY FEAR TILL YOU ALL JUST DISAPPEAR Chris is explaining how he feels disempowered by the onslaught of "dark forces" that seem to overrun our world. He is simply hanging his head until his life is over. Even the title "Black Hole Sun" symbolizes something that appears very bright, nurturing, and friendly, but if you get close to it and really examine it's true nature, it will swallow you up in order to make itself bigger. The video, if you remember, shows all of these people who seem ridiculously happy with their lives. [Hence the exaggerated smiles] The religious zealots, the narcissistic "beauty" queen, etc. But, as we progress through the video, the characters gradually, one by one, begin to realize that they are doomed and that all of their petty, inconsequential lives are not worth the skin they are held in. Of course, I could be completely off my rocker, and I don't want anyone to think that I have the right to interpret someone else's lyrics/message, but this is what I see and feel. ((((((o)))))) Thanks for taking a trip down dark memory lane. ------------------------------ From: "Steven Russell Jr." Subject: :::::hum::::: 35 minutes till I hear the humming sound of the subaru's engine... "I'm overfloating now...." I think you understand. Steve - - "There must something good far away from here" far away... ...and now we leave for good. ------------------------------ From: Ac71@aol.com Subject: psyched for NY shows Hello All...... I am brand new to this list and I just kind of want get myself in here and say hello Very cool hearing about most of you in Chicago...... Anyway.....i don't have much info to share right now but I live in Jersey....Work in New York and this weekend SG arrives @ Roseland, NYC....and I'm real pumped....going to see them on Friday and Sunday.....haven't seen them since they played the Armory on the Superunknown tour (the night of the OJ chase in CA. and also the day of the New York Rangers Stanley cup parade in 94)....so it's been a little while.....I'll inform all on the shows after i experience them.....HEAD INJURY..Ac71@aol.com..... ------------------------------ From: "Jen Kern" Subject: WOW Hey everyone!!! Just wanted to say that I am speechless after reading everyone's posts about the Chicago shows!!! Getting to meet the band AND Seth--what an experience!!!! I would be lying if I said I wasn't the tiniest bit envious of you all---cause I am--but I am also so THRILLED for all of you!!! Hopefully someday the rest of us will be able have such a memorable, personal experience with the band. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!! Just thought I would throw in my opinion of some of the recent threads going on..... 1) In my opinion--Chris is the icing on God's cake with his SHORT hair. I don't know what it is---but from the moment he first cut his hair I was dying. I think he looks more rugged and sexy and REAL with his shorter do. 2) Gotta also admit that if I had to choose (and THANK GOD I don't have to) I love Chris' deeper voice. It makes me swoon--- 3) No Christmas albums!!!!!!!!!!!! *ahhhhhhhhhhh--scary thought!!!* 4) My favorite album = BADMOTORFINGER 5) Okay--this isn't part of the current threads--but I thought I would share this with you all anyway--If I had 3 wishes they would be: to stand behind Matt and watch him play JCP and Slaves and Bulldozers; get *personal* bass lessons from the MAN HIMSELF--BEN; and last but not least--to meet up with the boys, drink a few beers and have some awesome conversation!! WOW!!! Okay--there was my Christmas wish list!!!! Maybe if I am a real good girl--Santa will be good to me this year........(you can never stop dreaming!) Well, only 27 more days until the Seattle shows!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!! One more thing (sorry) I just ordered the Pretty Noose single (Pt.2)--and was wondering if it comes with a poster and what it is like if it does???? JEN **Shroom-- Can Ben and I join you in your game of twister? (just think of all the compromising positions you can get into with 4 players!!!) I'll bring extra whipped cream!!! I'll even let Susan take pictures!! ~~~~and I'll share the goods!!!!** Lance--you embarrass me!!! But, yeah, I am a goddess!! (In my mother's eyes at least!!!--she luvs me no matter what I do!!!) and thanks again for BMF/SOMMS!!!!!! ------------------------------ From: The Shogun Woo Subject: Simmer down there... At 11:25 PM 11/13/96 -0500, you wrote: >In response to: From: The Shogun Woo > >I hope I don't offend anyone, but I think Chris Cornell looks like a woman >with long hair. The short hair goes much better. As to vocals, it doesn't >really matter. > >AntiDog writes: > >If you think he looks like a woman, I have to ask when was the last time you >actually SAW a woman? Because darlin theres no way Chris testosterone >could be confused with a profusion of estrogen, whether he was bald or >looking like one of those furry things from Star Trek. > >(And, you better look out, because when Shroom finds out what you said about >Chris masculinity.... oooooh!) > > HOLD ON!! I DIDN'T MEAN IT!! Hey, simmer down there. I knew someone would get around to busting me for that comment. I'm not doubting the main man's masculinity, I'm just saying that I like him with short hair better. Damn, I think I should change my address before Shroom comes to castrate me. I know everyone is deep into SG and so am I, so don't think I would intentionally try to put down Chris and the crew. That would be suicide. Please forgive me for this blasphemy. I REPENT, I REPENT, I REPENT... your humble servant, Shogun PS: if you know that Shroom is going to kill me, please give me some sort of notice. (You guys should just be cool.) ------------------------------ Subject: Picture!!! From: jsimpson@mail03.mitre.org (Jamesetta Simpson) Can I help you? Yes I'm here to pick up my pictures.. Your name? Simpson, Jamie.. Simpson no shit. Hey it's the lady with the pictures.. (rush of young guys from the back room). We been waiting for you to come in. You have to settle a battle going on.. The guy in your photos is he the guy on the front of Detail Magazine? Yep, just got my pictures and sorry to say I only got 4 that were really great. One close up of Matt with our Dee Dee looking very much like she is going to go for a throat. One close up of Matt and half of Chris's head.. One with Matt and Chris just as they were turning to leave - Dee Dee's back (gee whiz girl friend you were a busy little thing) and the side (sorry Toni) of Toni's head. But at lease you can still say you were there. And the last one is a great shot of Chris with Matt in the background and you got it Dee Dee's back. :-) The stage shots are worthless unless you want a picture of the back of Aaron's head (a very nice head - shit can't get the List Thug mad at me). It was just to dark to get anything great. I also got one of our handsome leader Seth and a great shot taken in Toni's kitchen... Jamie (Village Idiot/SOMMs Mom) ------------------------------ From: "mcinturff, dylan" Subject: Re:Chicago, the list, and assorted ramblings Wow. I have been sitting here reading all of everyone's posts from Chicago, and I think all the reports are wonderful. I, like many others who weren't there, am insanely jealous. I almost feel like crying because I'm happy for you all and I missed it and I can imagine how I would feel if I had been there. I guess some SOMMSters are meeting at the D.C. show, but I haven't heard anything in a week. Any news on this? I know it won't be the same as Chicago, but it'll still be great... I guess I'm rambling, so while I'm at it, thank you Seth for providing me with an outlet to do so. ONE WEEK LEFT UNTIL FAIRFAX!!!!!!!! DYLAN McINTURFF ------------------------------ From: Deborah Baker Subject: Re: I can count it on my fingers In Wednesday's digest Dee Dee asked: >im kinda curious...just how well off are they? i realize theyve sold tons >of records...etc...but how much of that goes back into production etc? i >thought i recalled hearing that they give themselves a salary and they dont >excede that salary... Well off enough for Chris to drive a Porsche, own a weekend retreat in the Olympics, board his german shepherds at a *very* exclusive 100 acre island kennels catering for a just a handful of dogs and buy all his friends motorcycles. But hell, they deserve it. And it's not a fraction of what the record compnay make from them. UK Deb ------------------------------ From: tonerkin Subject: Ben who??? At 11:09 AM 11/13/96 -0600, you wrote: > >> -- Ben (Help me think of a nickname since everyone at sommsfest >> chicago had to refer to me by my first and last name) Well, you could be Big Ben...but that again you are more like Medium Ben. But I think Ben already gave you a nickname. HEY BEN.....JAMMIN!!!! I think that is what you are going to be to me from now on!!! I'm sorry, I know I called you Ben Timberlake every time I introduced you. I guess I didn't want people to start ducking behind chairs because they thought the other Ben was in the house!!! Glad to see the prodigal son has returned!!! toni ------------------------------ From: little sun Subject: Re: the best approach to writing songs - was:Re: what it takes to step through... On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Andrew Dunn wrote: > > > > > Agreed. Its not as if Soundgarden are like Smashing Pumpkins where > > Billy-boy doesn't let anyone apart from himself write songs (apart from > > the odd one or two). > > > > -me > > I think Billy pretty much lets anyone who wants to write songs, James Iha > has written close to 12 for Mellon Collie, which is about an album's worth > and about 5 before that, alone (most of which James sings on, thereby he's > able to have an outlet as well). D'arcy hasn't written any songs, but > maybe that's because she's not that good of a writer... > > Sometimes the best approach to songwriting is to have one person do it. I > mean, a lot of Soundgarden songs are like that. The emotions come truer if > you don't have to filter it though everyone's ideas, and fortunately > (unlike Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and the like) very few Smashing Pumpkins > songs are lost due to the fact that they have to filter it like that, so > instead of maybe 16 songs we get from Soundgarden, fans of SP can get up to > like 49 songs in a year, yeah, a few throwaways, but the advantage is they > get huge diversity, more diversity than any other "popular alternative > band" today. > > On a side note, I don't think any of them are being egotistical, I mean, if > these people are getting 'bullied' by the lead singer, then they need to > wake up and smell the coffee, they are adults, they can handle themselves. > Most of these people could walk away in a second if they wanted to. > > So I don't think it's necessary a need to have this huge collaboration with > the whole band, I think it's just another way of writing. The things that > matter are if the songs are good, if the band is happy, and if the fans > appreciate the effort. All the other stuff is for the tabloidish rock > magazines. > > just a thought, > nd. > Yeh, I know you're right. I was just having a sly dig at SP. I was in that sort of mood. - -me PS I do actually like SP and was just being facetious. Sorry!! ------------------------------ From: Lauren Simonis Subject: Re: Details!!!! Yes! Yes! Yes! I had the lady at Osco (Chicago drug store) go in the back and dig through boxes looking for that issue (the one on the stand had Jenny McCarthy (ick) on the cover). I, too, have only looked at the pictures. I need to find a time when I can sit down and read the whole article (twice) in order to fully enjoy it. - --Lauren On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Jamesetta Simpson wrote: > Wow, has anyone seen the December "Details" magazine. The pictures of > Chris are great, wonderful, great, sexy, great, intents, great and did I > mention greatttttttt... This is no longer a cute little boy my friends. > He is going for the older, dark and brooding look. I haven't read the > article yet to busy looking at the pictures.. :-) But on the whole I would > say Mr. Cornell is trying real hard to change his physical image and look.. > The problem is the first Calvin Klein ad shows a guy who is trying real > hard to look like our Chris but he is young. I guess no matter how hard he > try's the commercial media will do it's best to keep up with his style and > appeal. > > Jamie > (Village Idiot/SOMMs Mom) > > BTW: There is one awful picture of Bill Corgan in the letter section. And > we won't even talk about the pictures of Marily Manson... ::shutter:: > > ------------------------------ From: The Shogun Woo Subject: Re: Whats wrong with my hair?? At 01:21 AM 11/14/96 -0500, you wrote: >Do you have a problem about my hair? Please keep your degrading comments >to yourself and your ego. Thank you > > >Cris > What the hell does my ego have to do with this? I have already apologized. If you still have problems, consult me directly. Sup now? ------------------------------ From: CAMPBELLCG@bvu.edu Subject: Right on Eliza!! I just wanted to post to everyone that I agree totally with Eliza about the two major points of the whole Chicago SOMMS-fest activites. I will never forget meeting the band, but meeting the people may have been better. These are people I can continue to be friends with, something I can take with me. Signatures and hand-shakes with your idols are cool, but friends are even cooler. I joined this list because I love SG, but as I see it, this list isn't about them as much as it is about the people on it. That's what makes it so damn cool. And the fact that we can come together like we do( there are somms-fests all over that don't meet the band) and get along, that's a testiment to the type of people we are, and to the type of fans this awsome band has. Hope I get to meet every one of you all some day! biff ------------------------------ Subject: Detroit show highlights From: "Shawn David Kennedy" I don't have time to get into too detailed of a review, but here were a few of the high-points(besides the songs themselves): * Chris mentioned that the national anthem should have been played before the show. (because of the size of the venue) * After getting a lazer light shined on him, he told the fucker doing it that he was going to "come shove it up your ass" * Chris mentioned that Detroit was like his second home. (sure!) Before launching into Iggy's "Search and Destroy", Ben said "Here is some fucking Detroit rock for you!" * Before ripping into the best version of Rusty Cage I have ever heard (bootlegs, videos, CD's, other concerts, I don't care what you say, this was the definitive version of the song) Chris told the crowd that for tonight only, when we hear the song, to close our eyes and think of trains. * Chris introduced the song "Dusty" as a lullabye that you should sing to children to give them nice dreams when they go to sleep. Overall, the show was great! The setlist was basically the same as previous ones, except instead of Drawing Flies, they played No Attention. Helter Skelter/Boot Camp was really cool, and Ty Cobb got the crowd going. The only complaint I might have (and it really isn't a complaint) was that there was nothing really old played. Before introducing "Slaves & Bulldozers", Chris said that they were going to play something that they don't usually play, something really old. Then he asked us how far back in their repertoir we wanted them to go, but alas, they didn't go any farther back than BMF. Overall, it was a great performance. ------------------------------ From: tonerkin Subject: All hail Kim and his Tool........shirt! At 11:55 AM 11/13/96 +1000, you wrote: >On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, Toni M Roark wrote: > > > anyhow, I think it is cool that kim can be such a rich man, yet >still maintain a wardrobe of monster magnet, corrosion of conformity and >tool shirts for so long. let's face it - all four guys could buy new >clothes on the hour and twice on sundays, but are just too down to earth >for those sorts of "rock excess". I think you have to respect that. "rock excess"???? Buying a new t-shirt every two or three years is "rock excess"? I was just kidding about the TOOL shirt. But haven't we seen that shirt ALOT!!! I don't think it's a matter of money or no money! I think it's a matter (let's face it) Kim is not a clothes horse and/or does he seem to give a shit!!! That's fine it's doesn't mean that I can't tease about it!! Also on the subject of Kim..... I think our official hand signal for the somms mailing list (a way to greet each other) should be the Kim Thayil drinking beer salute...You know the one. He throws his head way back grasps the can firmly in his right hand and pours it down his gullet. We can approach each other...raise our cupped hand to our mouths while throwing our heads back. Sort of like a Vulcan hello or something!!! I know Blind dog I have slipped off into silliness again. Sorry!!! toni ------------------------------ From: stimpy1@netvision.net.il Subject: hey there... Hi all again... i`m sorry for not mailing for so long but i had homwork and stuff and tests :( any way i dont have mtv-America i only have mtv-europe and i still havent saw the BOTUS video i downloded from seth`s page the 1:05 mpg and i looks amaizing !!! the thing i dont get is why the video haven araived yet to mtv-Europe??? i really want someone to like help me and tell me the answer... so if any one can help me mail me or the list ok??? Take care now byebye then!!! - ------------------------------------- E-mail: stimpy1@netvision.net.il Date: 11/13/96 Time: 2:14:44 PM This message was sent by Chameleon - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Deborah Baker Subject: More Pigeonhed news More news from Kerrang! (16.11.96)on the Thayil/Cantrell contributions to the new Pigeonhead album... " Says Piegeonhed's mainman, one-time Soundgarden/Mudhoney producer Steve Fisk,'Jerry and Kim were hanging out together at Bad Animals Studio here in Seattle when we were recording The Full Sentence. They just asked if they could both play on the album - which is a very un-Seattle, un-showbusinessy thing to do.' Describing the duo's guitar playing on Marry Me, Fisk told Kerrang!, "Jerry does a George Harrison thing on the chorus, whilst Kim does a gut-buster guitar solo at the end." '... For what it's worth, Kerrang didn't rate Guitars That Rule The World Vol 2: Smell The Fuzz... "Highlights are few and far between. Dark Load, featuring Soundgarden's Kim Thayil, provide one of them on the brilliantly, er, brew-ding Brewicide." Lastly, BUTOW *now* won't be released as a single in the UK till 16th November!!!!!!!! UK Deb ------------------------------ From: BdMtrFngr Subject: Re: Michael Apple (BHS) wha??? On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Chris Miller wrote: > Black Hole Sun is meant to be a commentary on the governmental and > institutional vices that exist in today's society. The opening lines > IN MY EYES > INDISPOSED > IN DISGUISE AS NO ONE KNOWS > HIDES THE FACE > LIES THE SNAKE > THE SUN > IN MY DISGRACE > is meant to show how people are never really what they seem. I think > that Chris Cornell subscribes to the psychological theory that people > are inherently evil, and that a facade is often erected in order to hide > those dirty shameful deeds that we humans are so good at performing. > TIMES ARE GONE > FOR HONEST MEN > these words are rather simplistic in revealing how far down the drain > our society and culture has gone. {Ever met an honest politician?} > AND SOMETIMES > FAR TOO LONG > FOR SNAKES > ever notice how the political ass-holics (Newt G,Jesse Helms, etc) seem > to stay in office forever and ever? > HANG MY HEAD > DROWN MY FEAR > TILL YOU ALL JUST > DISAPPEAR > Chris is explaining how he feels disempowered by the onslaught of "dark > forces" that seem to overrun our world. He is simply hanging his head > until his life is over. > > Even the title "Black Hole Sun" symbolizes something that appears very > bright, nurturing, and friendly, but if you get close to it and really > examine it's true nature, it will swallow you up in order to make itself > bigger. > > The video, if you remember, shows all of these people who seem > ridiculously happy with their lives. [Hence the exaggerated smiles] > The religious zealots, the narcissistic "beauty" queen, etc. But, as we > progress through the video, the characters gradually, one by one, begin > to realize that they are doomed and that all of their petty, > inconsequential lives are not worth the skin they are held in. > > Of course, I could be completely off my rocker, and I don't want anyone > to think that I have the right to interpret someone else's > lyrics/message, but this is what I see and feel. > > ((((((o)))))) Thanks for taking a trip down dark memory lane. > ------------------------------ From: Joe Cennamo Subject: Re: Swallow My Pride On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, MICHAEL APPLE wrote: > One Last Stitch sounds almost nothing like Like Suicide. The only > thing both songs have in common is that their intros are done with acoustic > guitar. Chris's vocals are about a THOUSAND times better than Mark Arm's, > maybe a MILLION times better. Arm's words are too muffled and off-key, > which I find strange because he wasn't playing guitar at the same time > like Kurt Cobain did when he recorded. I disagree, Cornell is definatly a better singer. But the music and melody are alot alike. Cornell even sings one last stitch in the song to get the same affect. > >He also points out how Chris thanks Green River, Mark Arm, and Mudhoney on > >Ultramega OK. > > I thought that was because they were friends and knew each other. > Maybe... but I dunno. I wasn't there. :) True but it could be them expressing thanks for the help that mark gave them. In Circus magizine Mark talked about how he used to do a radio show with Kim, and sometimes they would get together to jam. some of my biggest influnences are other musicians I've worked with. But then I don't really copy every thing they do. > >But then he also tries to claim that every cool thing Kurt Cobain did was > >a copy of Mark Arm so. > > Naw, Kurt was Kurt. There was only one person like him in the whole > world. Boy, was Cobain a weird little psycho! But, very cool too. :) > Personally, I think Kurt Cobain's vocals were better than Arm's. At > least you can understand Kurt. I still like Arm's vocals, because they > sound so chaotic and vicious, but they could be less muddy. My brother claims that Mark and Kurt were roomates, and in a interview he amitted that he stole some of his ideas from Mark. I am not trying to claim that the 2 songs are entirely alike, just that they are simular in music and lyrics. joec ------------------------------ From: Joe Cennamo Subject: Re: Swallow My Pride On Tue, 12 Nov 1996, MICHAEL APPLE wrote: > One Last Stitch sounds almost nothing like Like Suicide. The only > thing both songs have in common is that their intros are done with acoustic > guitar. Chris's vocals are about a THOUSAND times better than Mark Arm's, > maybe a MILLION times better. Arm's words are too muffled and off-key, > which I find strange because he wasn't playing guitar at the same time > like Kurt Cobain did when he recorded. I disagree, Cornell is definatly a better singer. But the music and melody are alot alike. Cornell even sings one last stitch in the song to get the same affect. > >He also points out how Chris thanks Green River, Mark Arm, and Mudhoney on > >Ultramega OK. > > I thought that was because they were friends and knew each other. > Maybe... but I dunno. I wasn't there. :) True but it could be them expressing thanks for the help that mark gave them. In Circus magizine Mark talked about how he used to do a radio show with Kim, and sometimes they would get together to jam. some of my biggest influnences are other musicians I've worked with. But then I don't really copy every thing they do. > >But then he also tries to claim that every cool thing Kurt Cobain did was > >a copy of Mark Arm so. > > Naw, Kurt was Kurt. There was only one person like him in the whole > world. Boy, was Cobain a weird little psycho! But, very cool too. :) > Personally, I think Kurt Cobain's vocals were better than Arm's. At > least you can understand Kurt. I still like Arm's vocals, because they > sound so chaotic and vicious, but they could be less muddy. My brother claims that Mark and Kurt were roomates, and in a interview he amitted that he stole some of his ideas from Mark. I am not trying to claim that the 2 songs are entirely alike, just that they are simular in music and lyrics. joec ------------------------------ From: Monnica Lewis Subject: lyrics with no meanings? Hi again! You know, I was just thinking about how Chris is always saying his lyrics don't have any meaning. I'm not sure I buy this. I mean, he is a really private person so maybe that's just his way of getting out of sharing what the lyrics mean to him personally with everyone else. I mean, listening to the words, I'm sure all of us (granted I'm making a generalization here), find some kind of meaning in them. And personally, I just don't believe he's just pulling words out a hat . I'm interested in what you guys think about this? Also, *I want more*. The Chicago shows just whetted my appetite. Has anyone heard any rumors of them touring the US again when they finish up in the "Land Down Under"? Monnica ------------------------------ From: DeeDee Bradshaw-Autry Subject: chicago pics... howdy folks....i got my chicago pics back...basically they suck badly... here are the highlights tho... one great shot of the marquee above the aragon that said "SOUNDGARDEN...SOLD OUT" i just thought that was cool... one of the sigh that said "SOUNDGARDEN...Dressing Room" and one failr decent pic on stage with the red lights...its a shot of Chris, Ben and Kim...my scanner isnt good enough to bother with tho... and for the SOMMSTER pics...most of those sucked too...but a few salvagable ones showed up... a decent one of Seth and Jamie together... a great shot of Biff and AAron and a crappy one of me all together...think ill cut me out and scan that one... another good one of Biff and AAron...(those two fellows together could be dangerous) *hehe* and a cute pic of liza and a good pic of Toni, Jamie and Candy... and a great shot of bonnie... those of you involved in pics, ill scan and send ya copies... ******************************************************************************** Dee Dee Bradshaw-Autry "Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing..." TOOL "This is what it looks like, this is what is feels like, this is what it tastes like...this is what you've done to me..." Stabbing Westward "Be careful with me...I am fragile. Im a bitch babe...and Im on fire" Garbage http://www.infochase.com/ent/deedee/index.html ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Taylor Holmes Subject: Re: Jumping off cloud nine. V. Anselmo wrote: > Ben needs: 1) medication, 2) therapy and 3) a good, hard, > swift kick in the ass. He publicly threatened and humiliated an > employee > and terrorized the soundman, Erin, myself, two roadies, two techs and > two > frantic security guards ...all because his bass wasn't properly > tuned??? > I'm not impressed. Indeed #3 above, Vicki... I have always had questions about Ben in the way he pitches his riotous fits and generally acts like an ass. I've read Timberlake's account, and others, which seem to have positive views on Ben's behavior. Although unique, Ben's public behavior reveals to me a very immature image of the guy. He is an adult, for gods sake... not a teenage punker anymore. I think, with all of his antics, Ben is not much more than a musically talented sideshow clown. But clowns are entertaining, so maybe he should learn a juggling act or make balloon animals instead of spitting on and kicking people... Later, Taylor ------------------------------ From: DeeDee Bradshaw-Autry Subject: Re: lyrics with no meanings? i have a hard time believing anyones lyrics are about nothing...poetry and the like is so intensely personal, i just wont believe he arbitraily writes without feeling or meaning behind the words...i suspect rather, he just doesnt care to share with the masses the thoughts and feelings he might have had when he wrote the songs...for that matter, im not even sure that i would want him too...so much of the power and beauty behind poetry and lyrics is interpretation...i dont want the writer to tell me what to feel...i want to interpret and feel my own thoughts...i know i most enjoy hearing others interpretations of my poetry because more often than not what they get from my poetry is nothing like what i was thinking when i wrote it...instead they made it their own...and i think that is how Chris wants his lyrics to be taken...interpret them and make them your own... DeeDee... At 02:44 PM 11/13/96 PST, you wrote: > >Hi again! > >You know, I was just thinking about how Chris is always saying his lyrics >don't have any meaning. I'm not sure I buy this. I mean, he is a really >private person so maybe that's just his way of getting out of sharing what >the lyrics mean to him personally with everyone else. I mean, listening to >the words, I'm sure all of us (granted I'm making a generalization here), >find some kind of meaning in them. And personally, I just don't believe >he's just pulling words out a hat . I'm interested in what you guys think >about this? > >Also, *I want more*. The Chicago shows just whetted my appetite. Has >anyone heard any rumors of them touring the US again when they finish up in >the "Land Down Under"? > >Monnica > ******************************************************************************** Dee Dee Bradshaw-Autry "Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing..." TOOL "This is what it looks like, this is what is feels like, this is what it tastes like...this is what you've done to me..." Stabbing Westward "Be careful with me...I am fragile. Im a bitch babe...and Im on fire" Garbage http://www.infochase.com/ent/deedee/index.html ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Sachin Trivedi Subject: Brandeis Show Hey there, I'm gonna be taking the commuter rail to Brandeis to see the show. Anyone know how to get from the commuter rail to the Gosman center. Also, do you think the show will be over by 11:30, since that is the last train back to Boston, which I need to catch. Later, Sachin ------------------------------ From: Carolyn Hanel Subject: Question for Seth.....Thank You for Jamesetta.....Congratulations for all other Chicago-goers!! Without having read the influx of mail from the last 8 hours, I must say = I've thoroughly enjoyed reading all the Chicago reviews to date. It is = ALMOST as good as if I'd been there myself! I have a question for Seth - which I'm sure others would be interested = in also - how/when did it all "happen" with you going to Chicago?? I = understand you were flown there and accommodated by the band (or its = management). Is that correct? They shouted your airfare, concert = tickets AND accommodation? If so, I think that is so wonderful. That = means they obviously respect all your tireless efforts with your web = page and this mailing list. Wahoo! Please, Seth, give us some more details. Did they (who?) just come = straight out and invite you to go? Did you mention you wanted to go and = then they offered? How did it all come about? How long had you known = about it? Whose idea was it to surprise the other Sommsters? Yeah, I'm curious! :-) I also send a big thank you to my friend Jamesetta - your post on the = members was of particular interest to me. I just loved reading about = your impression of them. Sure, meeting Soundgarden was a big buzz, a = thrill, one you'll remember for always. But if I'd been in your place, = I think my favourite part would have been meeting so many Somms people = to share that wonderful experience with, especially as it seems you all = got along together so well. So thank you for sharing that side of = things with the rest of us! And of course, CONGRATULATIONS on ALL the reviews that have come in so = far. They are all written so well, and it is great to read about the = same event from so many different perspectives. I'm really looking = forward to reading Vikki's review (it might have even arrived in the = last 8 hours - if not, c'mon, Vikki - we're waiting!) because she has = that way about her, as Caryn has, to make the reader really feel they = ARE going through her experience. I'm awaitin' in anticipation.......... Carolyn the Master Fruit Sitting here like wet ashes with xs in my eyes.........and drawing = flies......Soundgarden ooooh I'm so jealous you guys got to hear them play that song live! ------------------------------ From: "Charles M. Croslin" Subject: Detroit Show Rocked I went to the Newport Tennessee Lollapalooza this last July. My friends and I drove for ten hours from Ann Arbor Michigan-just had to see Soundgarden, never had seen them, and couldn't wait until their fall tour. Most may not remember my posted review- I haven't posted anything since-but it was less than glowing. There were many problems: sound mix (not the bands' fault, I realize) vocals failing, sour notes, and a band that didn't look or sound like they were enjoying what they were doing. It was later that I found out about the whole incident with Kim getting arrested and Chris' birthday being the day before. I chalked the weak show up to a bad day and hoped it would be different if I got to see them again. It certainly was! Last night's performance in Detroit was outstanding. The set list was similar in content in sequence to the Chicago shows (which I reprint from Seth's post). Missing was Drawing Flies (I can't believe they still play this song live-I can't believe they seem to play it at all the shows except for the ones I get to see!) and added were Search and Destroy (a Stooges cover) and a bit of Strawberry Fields that turned into Helter Skelter. Sequence is mostly right, with perhaps a few out of place: Spoonman Searching With My Good Eye Closed Let Me Drown Pretty Noose Burden In My Hand My Wave Ty Cobb Never Named Fell On Black Days Strawberry Fields/Helter Skelter Boot Camp Rusty Cage Black Hole Sun Outshined Search and Destroy Blow Up The Outside World Dusty Slaves & Bulldozers __________________ Encore: No Attention Jesus Christ Pose Details: - -Ben came out and played with Tenderloin for a couple of rockin' tunes. - -Matt seemed to sing back up as much as Ben, if not more. - -The arrangement of Helter Skelter was unique, less noisy than the original and perhaps transposed (the melody sounded different). It was a thoughtful and surprising touch. - -Strange hearing Boot Camp towards the middle of the set-I equate it with a "wrap-up" soley because of its tone and that it is placed last on DOTU. Was very sweet and served as kind of a bridge to the second part of the set. - -OPINION: Seemed to take a few songs for the set to pick up momentum, but once it did, it built and built. SWMGEC seemed a little disjointed. Sad to say it, but Pretty Noose was the only song of the night that left me flat. Tempo was slow and the vocals sounded very strained. Certainly forgivable considering the rest of the set. - -OPINION: Personal favorites of the evening were Boot Camp, Rusty Cage, BUTOW, Search and Destroy, Dusty, Slaves and Bulldozers, and JCP. Couldn't tell you exactly why these over any others, because the others were also very good. These particular ones just kicked my ass. Have heard BUTOW a lot lately and one can get tired of repeated playings of even a great song. Was very surprised at its power and intensity live, though. - -Real chemistry onstage-these guys seemed to be having a really good time. The sense of comraderie that seemed to be missing at the Newport show I saw came out in spades last night. It may seem like a trivial point, but lack of common enjoyment or purpose in a bands' performance can put a huge dent in a show, even making a technically competent performance seem flat and labored. Soundgarden was right on last night. - -Relative to the above, and for those who just have to know, the much-monitored Ben grooved joyously, grinned frequently, spit or flipped fingers seldomly (and even then it was good-natured). - -In a moment of humor, Chris pointed out the disappearance and subsequent re-appearance of an audience member, saying that person must have gotten bored or went out for a drink. He then turned it on to the rest of the audience-were the rest of us bored or tired? He pointed out that the band didn't have the luxury of not paying attention, said he was getting a little tired himself, then proceeded to lie down on the stage. "I'm taking a lovely little nap in Detroit." - -Chris said that, unlike some bands, they play their older material at shows, but some people just don't recognize it. Did we care to hear something older? As he was talking I swore I heard been lightly riffing on "Gun," which made my heart jump. What we got, of course, was Slaves and Bulldozers-an amazing song to begin with and an even more amazing performance of it. They worked this song over with much noise, jamming and guts. I forgot where the hell I was for a minute. - -After JCP, Kim and Chris took a few minutes to indulge in some noise making before leaving the stage. It was a nice touch-a little auditory harvesting in the garden of sound, living up to their name in a big way. Sorry so long, kids. I didn't get to meet the band (which I 'm sure was cool, Chicagoers), but by the end of the night, I felt like I had anyway. It takes a lot to bring that across in a place as huge as the Palace of Auburn Hills (about 20,000 capacity, probably half to two-thirds full last night). Pity the people not on the floor-I'll bet the sound kind of bit for them. Soundgarden indeed rules! Finally satisfied, Chas ------------------------------ From: Ken Casey Subject: Re: Soundgarden Digest, Wednesday, 13 Nov 1996 IN reply to Michael Apple's question about people moving to Seattle.. Well, I think it may have slowed down a little, but not alot... Not enough to make a difference anyway. Maybe its just not as bad whrer I live.. I dont like IN Seattle... Im in wonderful Seattle suberbia. =] Oh well. Anyway, It seems everyone moves here, not just down-on-their-luck musicans.. Though why ANYONE would move here is beyond me.. highest perking tickets.. third worst trafffic.. highest suicide rate... But I've never lived anywhere else.. so is Seattle just better than everywhere esle? Ah I love his place.. *tee-hee* Laurie C. ------------------------------ From: Laurie Casey Subject: All those Chicago reveiws! Man.. After reading all those reveiws I can only sit here green with envy!! Oh well.. I may not have the truely supernatural experience you guys did but I sitt get to go to the show!! =] 27 more days!!! Canot wait.. Hey, hope you guys had the time of your lives!! Laurie ------------------------------ From: blind dog Subject: whatsoever I've feared has come to life... On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Monnica Lewis wrote: > You know, I was just thinking about how Chris is always saying his lyrics > don't have any meaning. I'm not sure I buy this. I mean, he is a really > private person so maybe that's just his way of getting out of sharing what > find some kind of meaning in them. And personally, I just don't believe > he's just pulling words out a hat . I'm interested in what you guys think I think he does whatever he wants with regards to lyrics. of course, none of us can say exactly what was going through his head when he wrote lines like "raining icepicks on your steel shore" or "give me little bits of more than I can take", but there are some songs where we know (roughly; through interviews) what he is writing/singing about (ie. let me drown, pretty noose, jcp, etc). here he is obviously writing with a certain purpose or subject matter in mind, and that is evidenced by the lyrics that eventally make the record. other times (most prominently black hole sun) it looks like the words are just a stream of consciousness; that he just put down whatever felt good or sounded right. I'd like to think that he did this on some of badmotorfinger, which contains some of his most obtuse and metaphorical lyrics, but then again, there are a lot of songs on that record that appear to have a real purpose, even if it is unknown to the listener. just as an aside, I think it is cool how chris can write a song like bhs (which he insists he threw together), then write a song like mailman (about an experience which may or may not be his own), then write a song like jcp or new damage (his own observations), then write a song like butow or like suicide (involving some fairly personal sorts of things) and then...well, you get the picture. you have to admire his ability to write in so many ways. anyhow, if chris says in an interview "those lyrics don't mean anything" or "I don't remember what that song is about", I think it is probably just his way of saying that he doesn't want to talk about it. for the moderately introverted person that he obviously is, just getting up on stage and singing those songs would be enough. he doesn't have to recount the meaning of all his lyrics to every magazine that asks. and even though it would be cool, it would change our appreciation of the music. ----------------------------------- a thousand doors, a thousand lies rooms a thousand years wide - words by kim thayil ----------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: eliza Subject: RE: Detroit Show Rocked >Have heard BUTOW a lot lately and one can get tired of repeated playings of even a great song. Was very surprised at its power and intensity live, though. Great point and I *totally* agree...never expected to get very excited about this song live, but holy shit it was beautiful....and the lighting effects gave me goose bumps.....thanks for the *great* review, chas! ------------------------------ From: eliza Subject: RE: lyrics with no meanings? >so much of the power and beauty behind poetry and lyrics is interpretation...i dont want the writer to tell me what to feel...i want to interpret and feel my own thoughts... i *totally* agree....when i was writing songs all the time, people often asked me, "what in the world does that mean?" or "what is the significance of that?". Most of the time, I responded with a "What does it mean to you?" and leave it at that. No one can ever truly understand the meaning of lyrics because they are a purely personal creation....just like we can never really know the symbolism behind some of the most abstract paintings in the world... i am sure they mean *something* to chris, no matter how subjective or mundane at times, but that is not for us to know - that is for us to feel and experience and get whatever we *need* to out of them.... ------------------------------ From: gwm@starnetinc.com Subject: BUTOW live I loved this so much! It's one of the only times I've ever cried at a concert. That and Present Tense by Pearl Jam are the latest ones (haven't been to a concert where's PJ's played PT, but I have heard it live on some new '96 tapes I have) >>Have heard BUTOW a >lot lately and one can get tired of repeated playings of even a great >song. Was very surprised at its power and intensity live, though. > >Great point and I *totally* agree...never expected to get very excited >about this song live, but holy shit it was beautiful....and the lighting effects >gave me goose bumps.....thanks for the *great* review, chas! > > Dave Miller ********************************************* *I like to trade bootlegs. * *Check out my Pearl Jam homepage at: * *http://pwp.starnetinc.com/gwm/pearl.htm * *You can find my bootlist there * *PEARL JAM AND SOUNDGARDEN RULE! * ********************************************* ------------------------------ From: "Michael Kruse" Subject: hair hey man i think chris's good old days of having the long hair are over but man were those the days.... like in the hunger strike video chris and eddie had some serious hair that just totally rawked...thankyou ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: kim gorgeous In response to: jsimpson@mail03.mitre.org (Jamesetta Simpson) ..... Kim is absolutely gorgeous. He has the most unbelievable eyes and that smile that makes you go weak in the knees.  AntiDog writes: God love you for such a gratuitous description! (Did I mention Im COMPLETELY jealous! Good for you...) ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: Response to Chris looking like a woman (NOT!) In response to: From: The Shogun Woo I hope I don't offend anyone, but I think Chris Cornell looks like a woman with long hair. The short hair goes much better. As to vocals, it doesn't really matter. AntiDog writes: If you think he looks like a woman, I have to ask when was the last time you actually SAW a woman? Because darlin theres no way Chris testosterone could be confused with a profusion of estrogen, whether he was bald or looking like one of those furry things from Star Trek. (And, you better look out, because when Shroom finds out what you said about Chris masculinity.... oooooh!) ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: meet and greet aversion band In response to: unknown originator of thread > with epic, a band called Getaway Cruiser, and they are already a little > sick of people coming up and meeting them and saying how great they are, AntiDog writes: Music is a consumer driven business, so they might want to consider at least an outward appearance of graciousness. Further, its not like were all on a net list for THEIR band now is it?! However, if youre point is that it must be hard to meet total strangers who look at you like youre from Mars, well Im sure it is taxing. But just maybe thats one of those cool things that distinguishes great from mediocre. ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: Chicago reviewer In response to: riffasaurs ('Outshined') and bombing raids ('No Attention'). --Kevin McKeough" AntiDog writes: Anyone who cant get their metaphors any better than that cant be taken seriously anyway! ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: Rolling with Eddie In response to: deborah@rustycage.u-net.com I haven't seen the Rolling Stone interview with Eddie Vedder AntiDog writes: It isnt actually an interview WITH Eddie. They just put him on the cover to sell magazines. No cooperation from him or the other PJ players. Its a re-hash of all known info about him. ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: Green River thread In response to: Green River thread AntiDog writes: Its a noisy album... but good. Especially if you put it in the context of music at that time. It was hair-band hell then. (Im into lots of hair, so dont get me wrong, but I like it mixed with genuine Rock not synths). Its like I really love SGs LTL, but I dont think it would really blow-away the record market of Nov., 1996. You know? ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: stereotyping SG men and women In response to: MICHAEL APPLE It makes sense that more women would drool over Chris than Kim, for the simple fact that Chris is the frontman, and therefore the most visible to the audience. Kim, as lead guitarist, will not move around as much, AntiDog writes: Dont follow the stereotypes for your gender . Be your OWN DOG! ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: Shroom's finger-lickin.... In response to: Shrooooooom AAAAUUUUGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! Let me just say that the picture is hanging on my wall now, because I had this ferocious licking fit right after I bought it. AntiDog writes: Do you have this on video? ------------------------------ From: AntiDog@aol.com Subject: re: DeeDee's music money question In response to: DeeDee Bradshaw-Autry <> AntiDog writes: So, how much do you wanna know? Heres a quick, GENERAL overview of the meanderings of music money. Okay, so it turned out to be a long message..... but its still brief given the topic.... 1. Album - money for writing each song and for performing each song in the recorded version. The c with a circle around is the copyright of the substance of the material; the p with a circle around it is the copyright of THAT recorded version. Artists are paid in each of these areas PER PRESSING, i.e., each time a recorded version is made, CD, cassette, vinyl, each individual gets his pressing share relative to contribution. For example, if you wrote a song, lyrics and music, you would get either 5 or 6-cents per pressing. If you wrote just the lyrics, youd get half the 6-cents, etc. Times that by one-million, and you get over 60K for just that alone- just one song on one album, or one single. If Johnny Cash covers your tune, you get royalty money again, per pressing, without ever having done more work on the song. 2. Publishing - this is a subject worthy of a novel and the most complicated part of music money. But suffice it to say that publishing rights are a separate thing you can sell and it gives a publisher the royalties and, depending on your agreement, the discretion to sell material youve written. You do NOT have to be a recording artist to have a publisher sell songs youve penned. Bands like RUSH never sold the rights to their publishing. Some people, like that guy Adam from Counting Crows (I know, perish the thought), sold his rights for about $250,000 up front before their first album did so well. Its a risk for a publisher to bet money on you, etc.... could go on forever about this part. I think the SG gents kept their publishing rights; so, when Johnny Cash did cover Rusty Cage, Chris You Make Me Sick I Make Music got the bucks. 3. Performance - record companies like bands to tour because it sells records and thats where the record company makes nearly ALL its cash. Concert ticket money usually just covers tour costs. Bands make tour money from #4 below (and the aforementioned record percentages). 4. Merchandising - The bulk volume of SG merchandise means that if they are selling a short-sleeved, 3 color silk screen, cotton t-shirt for $18-20, they are making a profit per shirt of about $15. And, their cost of merchandising is relatively low. The primary cost in merchandising anything is distribution, and theyre already THERE at the concert or already have channels through the fan club membership. I do not know the breakdowns for things like videos, posters, books. When it comes to music videos which you might see on MTV, Im unclear on whether the band has ownership or the record company. Im tempted to think its the band BECAUSE: the band pays (hopefully against royalties for that specific song (no-cross-collaterilization pppplease)), all video production expenses. (Production expenses on something like Jewels Who will save Your soul were about $15k, but many bands, especially the bigger ones - are looking at around $100K). In fact, the band pays for just all the stuff you think a record company pays for. But the record company usually outlays the initial cash for the video, tour, whatever, and the band pays them back out of their pressing and point royalties. Then the band can begin to make a profit. A band like Aerosmith has an unusually lucrative record contract estimated to be at 25-points per unit, i.e., they get about 25% of the CD selling price. Its more usual for a band to get about 10 to 15%. Thats as quick and simple as I can make it. Remember too, in addition to all the other expenses wassociated with the operation, they pay their manager something in the neighborhood of 10 to 15%. (And, I dont know if that percentage is based on the net band profits or the gross.) - -antidog ------------------------------ From: "Steven Russell Jr." Subject: . wow! ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Detroit Show Rocked From: jsimpson@mail03.mitre.org (Jamesetta Simpson) > Soundgarden indeed rules! > > Finally satisfied, > > Chas Loved your review. Yes it was great to meet the guys backstage on the first night but you know I enjoyed the show better on the second night.. I missed so much on Saturday because of all the other stuff going on. Sunday was just pure rock and roll - God I have missed going ballistic at a concert. From the reviews of other shows I really think Soundgarden is having the time of their life on this tour. I think Lolla was a bad experiences for them they seem to be doing so much better out on their own. I really hope they can hold on to this feeling when the go down under for the BDO in Ozland. I want our Munchkin Friend Carolyn to see them performing like this. Jamie (Village Idiot/SOMMs Mom) ------------------------------ From: Carolyn Hanel Subject: RE: Jumping off cloud nine. Vikki, thanks for that insight. Wow. I'm rather dumbstruck - don't = really know what to say. You didn't mention the music at all, the way = the band played, the part that makes you "feel complete and joyful". I = really do hope you DID get that from going to the Chicago concerts. =20 Of course I can see why Ben's behaviour would cloud your happiness at = having been to yet another Soundgarden concert. I remember asking why = it was that some members on this list thought it so wonderful that Ben = abused and cursed and swore at the Metallica crowd at Lollapollooza, but = no one else seemed to see it my way. Ben - the hero! How great he is = that he can act like an animal (spitting) and an arrogant pig!! Like Vikki, however, what I might think about Ben (and I really don't = HAVE an opinion, seeing as I haven't met or even seen the guy) doesn't = change the way I feel about the music this wonderful band creates. I = will also always be in awe of that. Hmmmmmmm. This is certainly food for thought. Carolyn. ------------------------------ End of somms Digest [Volume 2 Issue 304] ****************************************