From: somms@mit.edu To: somms-digest@mit.edu Subject: Soundgarden Digest, Thursday, 23 Nov 1995 Reply-To: somms@mit.edu Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 01:43:01 EST Sender: saperl The Soundgarden Digest: Thursday, 23 Nov 1995 listadmin: saperl@mit.edu list archive: http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/archive/ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: email saperl@mit.edu **listadmin note: I'm doing this remotely from New York (home for a few days for Thanksgiving), so the next few digests might come at odd times (you know, whenever I get to it). Today's Topics: RE: Susan Silver = Yoko Ono? You think you got it bad... Susan Silver is the anti-christ!! Spin's spin Re: Seedy Plus Kyle Petty Re: Soundgarden Digest, Tuesday, 21 Nov 1995 This cd+ thingy Soul Asylum Openers Re: Soul Asylum Openers Re: Soundgarden and beer Re: new ep (i think) Re: Susan Silver = Yoko Ono? Re: everything I've shown is what I feel... Re: fav place to listen Re: Kyle Petty soundgarden..sellouts? Re: money grab? Re: everything I've shown is what I feel... Re: fav place to listen Re: Soundgarden and beer No CD+ 'til January ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Kylie Hayes Subject: RE: Susan Silver = Yoko Ono? ---------- >From: He Who Walks Between >To: Kylie Hayes >Cc: 'somms@mit.edu' >Subject: RE: Susan Silver = Yoko Ono? >Date: Tuesday, 21 November 1995 11:47PM > >On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Kylie Hayes wrote: > >> >After reading all of these messages about Susan Silver Management. I >> >kept getting the idea that Susan Silver is to Soundgarden as Yoko Ono was >> >to the Beatles. I know Susan Silver has been with SG from the start but >> >this is just the way the attitude of the SOMMS list seems toward her. >> >Has anyone else noticed this? >> >> Jeez I dunno whether you should be so judgemental.... >Maybe, maybe not. > >They are obviously >> keeping her as management for a reason, she does a good job! >I'll buy that. > >So what if >> she's married to Chris Cornell, it shouldn't be relevant. >agreed. > >What should >> matter is the music, and I severly doubt she's going to change that. >No, i seriously doubt that, but to me and i hope many other people as >well the truth matters and it looks like she's trying to change that.... Well, for me, the truth is the music, and as long as she's not writing THAT, then I think that everything's OK. Who cares what sort of management they have - all should matter is the music they play. All the other bullshit, is just that - bullshit. Kyl > >-j > >aka Philip Fetters, "He Who Walks Between" aka The Equalist >aka Chicka Jackeen, A Livein Thesu (Per Unkn Own). Boom biddy bye bye! >*************************************************************************** ** >"I'm luck's last match struck in the pouring down wind." -Soundgarden >"Hey you gotta pay your dues, before you pay the rent" -Pavement > > ------------------------------ From: gfox@csc.uvic.ca (Greg Fox) Subject: You think you got it bad... >stolen.prayers@bbs.cowland.com >The no-text thing is a huge issue to me, since I'm running a 386sx/20 >with 2mb ram, so running something like Netscape on here would be a pure >miracle. I'm stuck with Telix for my Web browsing. Anyone else? Come on, >I CAN'T be the ONLY person on the list with a shitty computer. You aren't, but I bet I have it worse. I don't have a computer!!! Greg ================================================================== |Greg Fox Its not the truth I see| |CSCU Extra Curricular Co-ordinator It's just a mockery| |http://www.engr.uvic.ca/~gfox -Hole| - ------------------------------------------------------------------ That damn polyphasic frog rototillered my beets again! ------------------------------ From: DanaBT@aol.com Subject: Susan Silver is the anti-christ!! Jeez, some of you really take this personally!! I actually enjoyed the cd rom(the pictures of Chris picking his nose and smoking a pipe were classics), but maybe I wasn't expecting that much from it as some of you may have been. Yea, Susan Silver probably had a lot of say in this, but don't any of you think A&M Records had maybe a little to do with it? It IS about the almighty dollar and SG do have a contract to fullfill. I'm sure the record company does not have the patience that we do concerning the release of a new cd and possibly this is a way to appease both the record company and impatient SG fans. Susan Silver must have a hell of a job trying to explain to the record company why the new cd won't be out for another 6 months or so (especially after the success of "Superunknown") AND dealing with her first priority, the band themselves, who probably want to take their sweet time in order to deliver the best record possible. Just listen and watch the cd rom and enjoy it for what it's worth.....entertainment!! "Fans are a prime target of music industry dicks who jump on technology as a way to make some cash." bwalsh ------------------------------ From: samm@mail.usa1.com Subject: Spin's spin I know how much fun it is to lament how we are oppressed by the man, but I think we are being a bit oversensitive about this "censorship" issue. Of course it is unbecoming of Spin to alter the transcript and pass it off as the actual minutes, but I do not think the motives are at all sinister. Read: "SPINmc: SOUNDGARDEN fans have AN UNOFFICIAL WORLD WIDE WEB SITE. After the SPINonline Conference, and ONLY after you thoroughly EXPLORE THE SPINONLINE AREA, you are permitted to browse the following URL: http://www.sgi.net/soundgarden/ . It's run by Soundgarden fan and web-man, Seth Perlman --Seth: You rock the Web, my man!--..." The original said, "...and is way better than the official site, which is at http://Rocktropolis.com/Soundgarden/", which, come to think of it, is an outright dis of the official page -- the page, mind you, paid for by Soundgarden's management. I cannot blame Silver for being annoyed at Spin for not at least making an effort to say _something_ nice about the band's own page. (Note the lengths to which Spin goes to plug _its_ page!). The edited version says, "...The official site is still under construction and will supposedly rock once it is finished..." which is still admitting that the page is not all that great. The message remains that Seth's page is the recommended site. In this version, readers at least have some reason to check out the official page, which, it seems to me, is only fair. So I do not think Silver has anything against us and our page. She just expected a little consideration and respect after having gotten the band to appear on what is essentially a promotional platform for Spin. Make sense? Samson ------------------------------ From: samm@mail.usa1.com Subject: Re: Seedy Plus Seth wrote: > >I don't think there was really any reason to release the CD+. It's not >something I view as a "Soundgarden thing to do."...[snip] >I'm not quite sure what market they were targeting with this, and I >suspect that this is not a project that the band was particularly >enthusiastic about. It seems like a way to make some cash between >albums Imagine. a rep from A&M calls you and says, "we would like to put out a CD-plus, blah, blah, blah...and you don't have to do anything except cash the check..." They really had no reason _not_ to do it. It seems to me this is an "experiment" of sorts. For what purpose, I have no clue. The lack of marketing is curious, but I have not seen much promotion for _any_ CD+ release, so it is apparently not unusual. BTW, for those bothered by "SowndGardn"'s (I mean, who knows _who_ that was?) apparent dodging of questions regarding their next LP, in case you didn't notice, they did leave a clue: "AXLRICRAC (Here's a satisfied SPINonline infotainment consumer): Wow, I can't believe this. This is so cool. When are you going to start touring again in the NY area? SowndGardn: Probably not until the spring when the album comes out." SPRING 1996. Or so they say... Samson ------------------------------ From: samm@mail.usa1.com Subject: Kyle Petty Perhaps this was already covered before my tenure in the Garden, but what is the story with Kyle Petty? Let's see, I know he is Richard Petty's son...who the hell is that? He is a race car driver, I presume. What else? Did he die? Big explosion? Limbs strewn about the track? Great song. "Daddy didn't raise no fucking fool." Samson ------------------------------ From: Jovica Popovic Subject: Re: Soundgarden Digest, Tuesday, 21 Nov 1995 Regarding The Soundgarden Digest: Tuesday, 21 Nov 1995 ------------------------------ > From: JoAnn_Peach@livewire.com (JoAnn Peach) > Subject: Re: a possible opening act for soundgarden > > Everclear, YES....Foo Fighters, YES....Soul Asylum???! You've GOT to be > kidding. Soul Asylum is what I listen to when my Mom is in the car. [No joke, > she really does like them...But then again, she likes Echo and the Bunnymen] > I just can't see SG playing something like, "Birth Ritual" after the opening > band plays "Runaway Train".....LOL! :-) Soul Asylum is a much 'Runaway train' as SG is "Black Hole Sun'... See my point? ------------------------------ > From: Neale Grant > Subject: Re: Soundgarden Digest, Saturday, 18 Nov 1995 > > You want to try the Alice In Chains list (subscribe at > angrychr@halcyon.com)... it's really nice and friendly at over 600 > members. I couldn't believe it when the initial message from Seth warned Actually, I've been subscribed to Angry Chair for a couple of months. Nice list, but I had to leave it due to time constrains... > > > I went to see a flame war and a constructive discussion broke out... > > I guess we weren't carefull enough... :-) > > That's one thing the AiC list doesn't have: proper flame wars like I've > seen here. Actually, I've seen my share of those over at Angry Chair... > > Yeah, Mike is faster. But, that's because he has that style of playing. > > That bluesy/Hendrixesque style. On the other hand, Kim is more of a > > Tommy Iommi-esque (Black Sabbath) player... > > Tony? I stand corrected, I guess... > > Neither is 'better' per se, just different. > > Yes, but the faster the notes go, the less you can hear them. Obviously > there's a balance to be struck, but too fast is just noise. Okay, so I'm > biased to preferring Soundgarden, but I think Mike McCready overdoes it. > Iommi forever! Well, to each his own... ------------------------------ > Subject: Re: A question from a pickled mind > From: seth > > I sent the first message to the list on Friday, 28 Jul 1995 10:18:36 > EDT. We're coming up on the 4-month anniversary! Hey! Then I was there from the very beggings... I though the list was older... Cool. > It was a peaceful time, the conversation revolving almost exclusively > around -- believe it or not -- Soundgarden. I was just looking at the > archive...any of you old-timers want to reflect on how the list has > changed since its inception? Well, I guess the sheer number of people on the list has taken it's tool. Amons 300 people there will always be a few that just can't resist posting a flame, and then it takes a few weeks to estinguish it... But, I guess it's ok. It _can_ be much worse... :-) - --- jpop@fly.cc.fer.hr --- Sit back and watch my divine spark flash... -- jovica.popovic@fer.hr -- Disclaimer: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do - Jovica Popovic - it, can't prove anything! ------------------------------ From: "R. Kingsnorth" Subject: This cd+ thingy I'm starting to be glad that the bloody thing isn't available here in Merrie Olde England. And if/when it is, I won't buy it.....I don't even have a computer anyway..... It seems to me to be nothing more than a gimmick and it sounds like those of you who have it aren't even able to load it (''load'' - right word????).......I think music videos are bad enough - look at the damage they've done. What is this cd+ nonsense going to do to spoil music????!!!! I really hope it doesn't catch on .... this technology looks like it's very capable of ruining art........ Record Companies (I blame them) : What a load of tossers. I would have much rather waited a little longer for a proper album. Let's hope that when it comes out it isn't spoilt by all this cyber-hype.....music should be MUSIC! Cos Soundgarden are a bloody good band and they don't need to do this - we don't want them to become some sort of hyped-up Axl-esque circus act.....I'm sure they have too much integrity to do that - I hope this was all just an experiment........... How ironic that here I am, using this computer-type technology (no - I am not a computer whizz, as my terminology may suggest) to talk about the perils its use and develompment can have........... Maybe I'm just a cavewoman. I never really liked the idea of cds full stop (yes, I still listen to scratchy old vinyl). I think a nice hardbacked book would have been infinitely nicer for all those unreleased photos they put on the cd.................. Anyway, this is getting a tad long. Yours Very Waiting For The Real Album To Come Out -ly, Beck PS Let's face it, the Official Website is a little, well, -crap- , really........................ ------------------------------ From: dgarrett@bcs.org.uk (Daniel Garrett) Subject: Soul Asylum Openers > > From: JoAnn_Peach@livewire.com (JoAnn Peach) > > Subject: Re: a possible opening act for soundgarden > > > > Everclear, YES....Foo Fighters, YES....Soul Asylum???! You've GOT to be > > kidding. Soul Asylum is what I listen to when my Mom is in the car. [No joke, > > she really does like them...But then again, she likes Echo and the Bunnymen] > > I just can't see SG playing something like, "Birth Ritual" after the opening > > band plays "Runaway Train".....LOL! :-) > > Soul Asylum is a much 'Runaway train' as SG is "Black Hole Sun'... See my > point? > I agree, Soul Asylum are'nt exactly cutting edge are they, but I suspect thats not why they were chosen as a potential opening act more to do with the fact that someone on the list likes them and would like to see 2 bands they really like play together. I would have thought though that SG would have to support them, they seem to be doing pretty well, at least in the States. As for Foo Fighters, they are all well and good but I bought the album and liked it for about 2 weeks but can't see myself playing it again, its just one of those albums, sorry Dave!! Daniel Garrett ------------------------------ From: He Who Walks Between Subject: Re: Soul Asylum Openers On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, Daniel Garrett wrote: > I agree, Soul Asylum are'nt exactly cutting edge are they, but I suspect thats > not why they were chosen as a potential opening act more to do with the fact > that someone on the list likes them and would like to see 2 bands they really > like play together. I would have thought though that SG would have to support > them, they seem to be doing pretty well, at least in the States. As for No way! sg open for Soul Asylum? Never!!!! Look, i saw soul asylum and i even enjoyed the show, but if sg opened then soul asylum would be a huge letdown afterwards. -j aka Philip Fetters, "He Who Walks Between" aka The Equalist aka Chicka Jackeen, A Livein Thesu (Per Unkn Own). Boom biddy bye bye! ***************************************************************************** "I'm luck's last match struck in the pouring down wind." -Soundgarden "Hey you gotta pay your dues, before you pay the rent" -Pavement ------------------------------ From: Jennifer C Graham Subject: Re: Soundgarden and beer It's really cool when the > forks start to twist themselves to the sound of "She likes surprises". > > David the home maker. Cool line. It says a lot. ------------------------------ From: Milkman Subject: Re: new ep (i think) In Tower Records, where the CD+ was $21.99, the EP was only $3.99. Also, I had no problem getting the CD+ to work. I simply put it in the CD-rom player, and followed the instructions in the insert. On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Nancy E Phend wrote: > Well I bought the CD-plus, got the only one at the store. Tried a few > things and it seems to work ok. The music is a little choppy sounding > though. Someone asked if they had released a new EP. I found one that I > had never seen before. It is called 'Songs From The Superunknown'. It has > 5 tracks: > Superunknown-LP version 5:06 > Fell on Black Days-Video version 5:26 > She Likes Surprises-International LP version 3:17 > Like Suicide-Acoustic version 6:11 > Jerry Garcia's Finger 4:00 > It was only $6.99! > > nephend > ------------------------------ From: Milkman Subject: Re: Susan Silver = Yoko Ono? Didn't you read Howard Stern's new book? Tom Arnold is this decade's Yoko Ono. On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Chris Mackenzie wrote: > After reading all of these messages about Susan Silver Management. I > kept getting the idea that Susan Silver is to Soundgarden as Yoko Ono was > to the Beatles. I know Susan Silver has been with SG from the start but > this is just the way the attitude of the SOMMS list seems toward her. > Has anyone else noticed this? > ------------------------------ From: BdMtrFngr Subject: Re: everything I've shown is what I feel... OK. Let me pitch my 2 cents on the conversations that have come up on the list in the last couple of days. First of all, the girls/women on the list who took offense to what Chris said really have to lighten up and/or buy a sense of humor along with the new EP. When Chris made his sexist(or sexiest as Jaime likes to spell it) comment it was done in a satirical manner. For those who don't understand satire, please feel free to look in the dictionary. Before all of you people take your stand on this issue please look at the lines before the comment. You can see that someone asked Chris if he was as sexist, he replied in a sexist way. Once again ladies and gentleman this is satire and it is funny, laugh! Personally I dont know maybe Chris is sexist, and in reality I dont give a rat's ass, but you definately can not tell if he is from this stupid comment. Thank you I would also like to comment on this CD+ and the EP. For all those who are wondering if SG sold out, they did. SOUNDGARDEN SOLD OUT TO THE RECORD COMPANIES AND TO MANAGEMENT! For the last couple of months they have been teasing us that this new cd is coming out. And now i and many others have it...............Big Shit! I have two songs i havent heardx before, but i could have bought those two songs on singles months ago. Another problem is the great bonus track on the EP. Sg made it look like there was another song on the ep, so many of us were considering buying both(hell the EP is only 3.99). But there is no song, there is a track,however, of a windchime and other various noise. It even has a name, "Jerry Garcia'a finger". Why did SG do this? To sell more records and make money. Why, they have a lot of money? Well obviously management has corrupted them after the success of SuperUnknown. Now I really dont care if they are greedy, because i am. I just hope that their new music isn't affected by this. I really dont want a whole album of Black Hole Suns. My advice to them is to be themselves. Fuck CD rom shit! Make music like they said in the interview! Chris and the boys dont know shit about computers, why the hell should they act like a bunch of geeks( sorry to all of those who are computer nerds) to sell records. Fuck EP's with already released music! If you are possessed to do an EP in between albums, do it like AIC(I know they make CD+'s too, that wasn't the point.The point is that their last EP had 7 new songs.) And Fuck your management( i know that chris takes to this literally) and your fans who dont have a sense of humor. Thank you for your time! "I could set you free, rather hear the sound of your body breaking as I take you down!" - Jerry Cantrell ------------------------------ From: mrl5@Lehigh.EDU (ClownWithBazooka) Subject: Re: fav place to listen >Oh yeah, and listening to it during sex is pretty great too, Chris' voice just >does it to me. Thank god, I'm not the only one, now I really miss my ex-girlfriend. Not many girls out there are as big a soundgarden fan as I am. No big dumb sex jokes please. >Alie University of Western Ontario, Canada My favorite place to hear soundgarden is: 1)when I first get up 2)During homework 3)After I get a big assignment done,(superunknown) 4)When I'm happy(birth ritual) 5)when I'm depressed(limo Wreck) Okay I think you get the point. I must go purchase alive in the superunknown now. Clown about to listen to limo wreck because he misses his ex. ------------------------------ From: Geoff Kleemola Subject: Re: Kyle Petty Kyle Petty is a NASCAR racer, and he is not dead. He drives the Mello-Yello (Ford?), I believe. Which disc(s) contain(s) this song? I have not heard it yet. >>>-------------------------------> Geoff Kleemola gkleemol@io.uwinnipeg.ca U of Winnipeg Psychology student <-------------------------------<<< ------------------------------ From: ADDC Subject: soundgarden..sellouts? i am a soundgarden fan.big time.i usually love whatever they put out.but this "alive in the superunknown" thing puzzles me. why did they put this out? almost everyone here says that it wasn't worth it;most of you cannot get the thing to even work.it seems like a waste of money.sad to say,it seems like our boys just sold out.i really thought soundgarden was immune to this but i guess i was wrong.i guess i will do what a lot of people are doing and patiently wait for their next real album to come out and to pretend that "alive" never existed. this is something that a group like bush would do, not soundgarden. a semi-disgusted fan, vince at utdallas ------------------------------ From: mrl5@Lehigh.EDU (ClownWithBazooka) Subject: Re: money grab? It's time for the old clown to put his $10 bucks worth. I am glad actually that the cd+ was released with little fanfare. It shows that the band hasn't become "cheesy". C'mon now it should be a fairly large event, they had the number one song of 94. I think it shows integrity by the band, as for the susan silver thing, I think the band wants to control they're media hype. So that would explain, her trying to hype the web page to it's users. I think that the band has a large enough fan base that they want to communicat directly with the people in they're fan club. When the new lp comes out it will probably be the same thing, they'll tell us but not the whole friggin mainstream world. So our favorite band won't get it's music perverted, think about it loud love went gold on the word of mouth from Ultramega ok. They could sell 4 million of the new album on word of mouth also. The new cd+ will probably sell big too with little fanfare, it seems half the list has already bought it. 90% of the "cheesy" mainstream pop 40 public doesn't know it exists. Believe mainstream public defines my 3 of my housemates who read every bloody entertainment magazine out there, and they know it's my favorite band and they would have said something. But all the millions of hard-core sg fans now t exists. And thats they way I think the band wants it, Clown _______________________________________________________________________________ "Rock n Roll's a dumb medium, but it's fun as hell. Intellectually, it's pretentious at best. Aesthetically, it's significantly lacking. I think what we do almost has the ability to transcend that medium. There's something about screaming fuck at the top of your lungs that's almost universal. It's a lot more common need than getting high or getting laid. - Kim Thayil _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Carolyn Subject: Re: everything I've shown is what I feel... On 22 November 1995, BdMtFngr wrote: > And Fuck your management (i know that chris takes to this literally)...... Ha ha!! :-) Oh, and on the early days of the somms list thing - I joined about a week or two after its inception - back then, there were still flames, but they were NICE flames. You know, all done in jest, with tongue in cheek, in an amusing way. Hell, Clown could say things about his hate for Pearl Jam and Jovica could reply with lots of humour and they wouldn't be bugged about it! And Jamie could be the village idiot and we all loved her for it. And Glenn or Steven could be deep & meaningful and we'd all appreciate it. And Blind Dog or I or Jackhammer or MoonDruid could throw in new subject ideas and people would respond with enthusiasm. Also, back then we weren't "told off" for using people's names (remember when a whole load of shit started when someone mentioned "the list elite"?) - we all knew each other because we all posted - we were almost like family! Now there are a lot of silent members out there. This is fine by me - I'm not knocking that at all - but it seems to be the silent ones who pop up now & again to do the flaming..... Yes, I'm still hanging around (ala Tumbleweed - for the Aussies), reading but not posting. Just thought I'd better change that for now so you know I'm here - like you all care!! (Matthew Souza - where are you, my friend??). Carolyn the Mystic Fumbler (thanks Chicka) ****************************************************** Boiling heat, summer stench; 'neath the black the sky looks dead.... Steal the warm wind, tired friend; times are gone for honest men.... ****************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Carolyn Subject: Re: fav place to listen To listen to Soundgarden? Definitely while speeding in my car in the dead of the night, with the sunroof open, and the music playing FLAT OUT. Rusty Cage, Drawing Flies, 4th of July, My Wave, Spoonman, Big Dumb Sex - these are all fantastic songs to listen to in this way. My car stereo is a really good one, and to hear these songs blasting at me from all corners of my car is just one big spinning-out experience. Ah, it's lucky I live in the country, in this big brown land called Australia, with so many open roads to drive flat out on to be able to listen to Soundgarden this way....... > Clown about to listen to limo wreck because he misses his ex. Oh dear, Clown. Hang in there, buddy!! Carolyn the Merrymaking Figurehead ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And it's raining icepicks on your steel shore - SOUNDGARDEN Our little group has always been & always will until the end - NIRVANA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ From: Neale Grant Subject: Re: Soundgarden and beer On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, 9304458s wrote: > On 21st of Nov, Sean wrote: > >favourite place to listen to Soundgarden > [cool stuff about listening to Soundgarden in the kitchen snipped] > > David the home maker. I hate to sound like Mary Poppins here, but does anyone else find that listening to (preferably loud) music makes doing the housework seem not so bad after all? My favourite is probably the Due South theme tune for ironing: ironing being the worst chore, and the music for Due South making it tolerable. Sorry, a bit non-SG there. Favourite household tasks + favourite tracks, anyone? Neale PS Listening to Pearl Jam doesn't count as a chore. B-) Neale Grant | Finger for GeekCode | neale.grant@univ.ox.ac.uk University College | The Quatermass Experiment is a top SF short story Oxford | diskmag: http://sable.ox.ac.uk/~univ0155/tqe.html OX1 4BH, UK | "I'm not fine, fuck pretending" - Alice In Chains ------------------------------ From: Geoff Kleemola Subject: No CD+ 'til January I just went down to HMV tonight, and asked about the CD+ and I FINALLY got ananswer at least. It was on his to-be-released sheet. The sceduled date was January 24th here in Canada. On the topic of Kyle Petty... I saw the FOBD import there with Album Version, Kyle..., Demo ver., Motorcycle Loop, and Live ver. Kyle Petty, Son of Richard is a pretty cool song. I also like Motorcycle Loop. TTYL... ;) >>>-------------------------------> Geoff Kleemola gkleemol@io.uwinnipeg.ca U of Winnipeg Psychology student http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/~gkleemol <-------------------------------<<< ------------------------------ End of somms Digest [Volume 1 Issue 109] ****************************************